1 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:00,666 If there's only 2 01:00:00,666 --> 01:00:02,583 one thing I would 3 01:00:02,583 --> 01:00:04,041 look at war, 4 01:00:04,750 --> 01:00:06,041 famine, poverty, 5 01:00:06,625 --> 01:00:07,291 issues of human 6 01:00:07,291 --> 01:00:07,875 suffering, 7 01:00:08,208 --> 01:00:09,416 but because I'm a 8 01:00:09,416 --> 01:00:10,500 professor of 9 01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:11,708 election law and 10 01:00:11,708 --> 01:00:13,000 voting rights, I 11 01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:13,708 would tie it back 12 01:00:13,708 --> 01:00:14,500 to democracy. 13 01:00:15,125 --> 01:00:15,833 And so the one 14 01:00:15,833 --> 01:00:16,375 thing that I 15 01:00:16,375 --> 01:00:17,250 think can tie it 16 01:00:17,250 --> 01:00:18,000 all together and 17 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:18,666 help on 18 01:00:18,666 --> 01:00:19,208 some of those 19 01:00:19,291 --> 01:00:20,791 major issues of 20 01:00:20,791 --> 01:00:21,583 human suffering 21 01:00:21,583 --> 01:00:22,666 is a better 22 01:00:22,666 --> 01:00:23,291 commitment to 23 01:00:23,291 --> 01:00:24,666 democracy and 24 01:00:24,666 --> 01:00:25,458 stronger voter 25 01:00:25,541 --> 01:00:26,791 engagement and 26 01:00:26,791 --> 01:00:27,375 stronger 27 01:00:27,375 --> 01:00:28,625 education, civics 28 01:00:28,625 --> 01:00:29,666 education. And 29 01:00:29,666 --> 01:00:30,083 you know in the 30 01:00:30,083 --> 01:00:30,750 United States, 31 01:00:31,166 --> 01:00:31,875 you know, we have 32 01:00:31,875 --> 01:00:32,875 voter turnout in 33 01:00:32,875 --> 01:00:33,208 presidential 34 01:00:33,208 --> 01:00:34,791 elections of 60 35 01:00:34,791 --> 01:00:36,500 or 65 percent. I 36 01:00:36,500 --> 01:00:36,916 think that's 37 01:00:36,958 --> 01:00:37,625 pretty horrible 38 01:00:37,625 --> 01:00:39,458 and you know that 39 01:00:39,458 --> 01:00:40,291 needs to be a lot 40 01:00:40,291 --> 01:00:42,000 higher. It's not 41 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:42,375 clear whether 42 01:00:42,375 --> 01:00:42,708 that would 43 01:00:42,708 --> 01:00:43,416 actually change 44 01:00:43,416 --> 01:00:44,375 outcomes in a 45 01:00:44,375 --> 01:00:45,125 place like 46 01:00:45,125 --> 01:00:46,166 America, which is 47 01:00:46,166 --> 01:00:47,625 already somewhat 48 01:00:47,625 --> 01:00:48,291 of a democracy, 49 01:00:49,125 --> 01:00:50,500 at least seen 50 01:00:50,500 --> 01:00:51,125 around the world 51 01:00:51,125 --> 01:00:53,416 as one of the 52 01:00:53,416 --> 01:00:53,875 most important 53 01:00:53,875 --> 01:00:55,125 democracies. But 54 01:00:55,125 --> 01:00:56,041 I do think that 55 01:00:56,166 --> 01:00:57,083 this collective 56 01:00:57,083 --> 01:00:58,500 action towards 57 01:00:58,500 --> 01:00:59,166 self-governance 58 01:00:59,166 --> 01:00:59,708 with better 59 01:00:59,708 --> 01:01:00,458 informed 60 01:01:00,458 --> 01:01:01,291 electorate 61 01:01:01,291 --> 01:01:03,041 can help to 62 01:01:03,666 --> 01:01:04,791 realize greater 63 01:01:04,791 --> 01:01:05,333 good for 64 01:01:05,333 --> 01:01:06,541 everyone. 65 01:01:06,541 --> 01:01:07,500 Joshua Douglas is a 66 01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:08,291 law professor at the 67 01:01:08,291 --> 01:01:09,166 University of 68 01:01:09,166 --> 01:01:09,500 Kentucky. 69 01:01:10,083 --> 01:01:10,833 Besides running 70 01:01:10,833 --> 01:01:11,500 the marathon, 71 01:01:11,500 --> 01:01:12,208 playing baseball, 72 01:01:12,208 --> 01:01:12,875 hiking and 73 01:01:12,875 --> 01:01:13,708 traveling, his 74 01:01:13,708 --> 01:01:13,875 most 75 01:01:13,875 --> 01:01:14,625 recent hobby is 76 01:01:14,625 --> 01:01:15,208 to play the 77 01:01:15,208 --> 01:01:16,541 guitar, which he 78 01:01:16,541 --> 01:01:17,291 even brought to 79 01:01:17,291 --> 01:01:18,250 Italy where I met 80 01:01:18,250 --> 01:01:18,708 him for this 81 01:01:18,708 --> 01:01:19,708 episode. He 82 01:01:19,708 --> 01:01:20,083 promised me 83 01:01:20,083 --> 01:01:20,541 that the next 84 01:01:20,541 --> 01:01:21,333 time we record, 85 01:01:21,333 --> 01:01:21,916 he would play us 86 01:01:21,916 --> 01:01:23,375 a song and I have 87 01:01:23,375 --> 01:01:24,083 a video to prove 88 01:01:24,083 --> 01:01:24,875 it. So this is 89 01:01:24,875 --> 01:01:25,250 definitely 90 01:01:25,250 --> 01:01:26,458 happening. He 91 01:01:26,458 --> 01:01:27,208 also has two kids 92 01:01:27,208 --> 01:01:28,125 who keep him busy 93 01:01:28,125 --> 01:01:28,833 and to whom he 94 01:01:28,833 --> 01:01:29,458 dedicates his 95 01:01:29,458 --> 01:01:30,041 latest book. 96 01:01:30,416 --> 01:01:30,875 It's entitled 97 01:01:30,875 --> 01:01:31,916 The Court v the Voters 98 01:01:31,916 --> 01:01:33,041 to be 99 01:01:33,041 --> 01:01:33,541 published on the 100 01:01:33,541 --> 01:01:34,333 14th of May, 101 01:01:34,333 --> 01:01:35,583 2024. And 102 01:01:35,583 --> 01:01:35,958 I give you 103 01:01:35,958 --> 01:01:36,458 the link in the 104 01:01:36,458 --> 01:01:37,041 description to 105 01:01:37,041 --> 01:01:38,250 pre-order it. In 106 01:01:38,250 --> 01:01:38,875 this episode, 107 01:01:38,875 --> 01:01:39,333 Joshua Douglas 108 01:01:39,333 --> 01:01:39,666 reveals 109 01:01:39,666 --> 01:01:40,291 for us some 110 01:01:40,333 --> 01:01:40,916 of the key 111 01:01:40,916 --> 01:01:41,791 moments of what 112 01:01:41,791 --> 01:01:42,625 he calls the 113 01:01:42,625 --> 01:01:43,250 troubling story 114 01:01:43,250 --> 01:01:44,083 of how the 115 01:01:44,083 --> 01:01:44,875 Supreme Court has 116 01:01:44,875 --> 01:01:45,250 undermined 117 01:01:45,291 --> 01:01:46,500 voting rights. 118 01:01:46,500 --> 01:01:47,583 In undergraduate, I 119 01:01:47,583 --> 01:01:48,000 was a political 120 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,583 science major and 121 01:01:49,583 --> 01:01:50,166 then I went to 122 01:01:50,166 --> 01:01:50,875 law school, which 123 01:01:50,958 --> 01:01:51,500 in the United 124 01:01:51,500 --> 01:01:52,041 States is a 125 01:01:52,041 --> 01:01:53,041 graduate program. 126 01:01:53,875 --> 01:01:54,416 And I took a 127 01:01:54,416 --> 01:01:55,541 course on voting 128 01:01:55,541 --> 01:01:56,416 rights and 129 01:01:56,416 --> 01:01:56,958 it really 130 01:01:56,958 --> 01:01:58,041 opened up my eyes 131 01:01:58,041 --> 01:01:59,000 to how my 132 01:01:59,000 --> 01:01:59,750 political science 133 01:01:59,750 --> 01:02:00,750 background and my 134 01:02:00,750 --> 01:02:01,708 legal training 135 01:02:01,708 --> 01:02:02,541 could come 136 01:02:02,541 --> 01:02:03,833 together. The 137 01:02:03,833 --> 01:02:04,458 reason I think 138 01:02:04,458 --> 01:02:05,458 it's so important 139 01:02:05,458 --> 01:02:06,541 and why I decided 140 01:02:06,541 --> 01:02:07,625 to study it is 141 01:02:07,625 --> 01:02:08,000 because 142 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:08,708 everything 143 01:02:08,875 --> 01:02:09,583 starts with the 144 01:02:09,583 --> 01:02:10,416 voter. I mean, 145 01:02:10,416 --> 01:02:10,708 you know, if you 146 01:02:10,708 --> 01:02:11,375 think about all 147 01:02:11,375 --> 01:02:12,458 the various laws, 148 01:02:12,666 --> 01:02:13,291 all the various 149 01:02:13,375 --> 01:02:14,333 rules that govern 150 01:02:14,333 --> 01:02:15,958 society in a 151 01:02:15,958 --> 01:02:16,750 democracy at 152 01:02:16,750 --> 01:02:17,791 least, the people 153 01:02:17,791 --> 01:02:18,666 who decide those 154 01:02:18,666 --> 01:02:19,958 laws are elected, 155 01:02:20,541 --> 01:02:21,333 right, by the 156 01:02:21,333 --> 01:02:22,416 people at large. 157 01:02:22,416 --> 01:02:23,375 So nothing starts 158 01:02:23,375 --> 01:02:24,791 until you get a 159 01:02:24,791 --> 01:02:25,541 voter and then a 160 01:02:25,541 --> 01:02:26,125 group of voters 161 01:02:26,333 --> 01:02:27,125 to come together 162 01:02:27,125 --> 01:02:28,333 to elect someone 163 01:02:28,333 --> 01:02:29,083 to a governing 164 01:02:29,083 --> 01:02:30,125 body. And then 165 01:02:30,125 --> 01:02:30,583 that governing 166 01:02:30,583 --> 01:02:31,458 body can pass the 167 01:02:31,458 --> 01:02:33,125 laws to regulate 168 01:02:33,125 --> 01:02:34,291 society. And 169 01:02:34,291 --> 01:02:35,000 those laws are 170 01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:35,833 not legitimate 171 01:02:35,833 --> 01:02:37,208 unless you have a 172 01:02:37,208 --> 01:02:37,750 free and fair 173 01:02:37,750 --> 01:02:38,125 election 174 01:02:38,666 --> 01:02:39,291 to elect the 175 01:02:39,291 --> 01:02:40,125 peoples to that 176 01:02:40,125 --> 01:02:40,916 governing body. 177 01:02:41,291 --> 01:02:42,375 So I think, you 178 01:02:42,375 --> 01:02:43,000 know, I sort of 179 01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:43,458 came to an 180 01:02:43,458 --> 01:02:43,958 understanding 181 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,333 that the way the 182 01:02:45,333 --> 01:02:46,208 world works, the 183 01:02:46,208 --> 01:02:47,083 way society is 184 01:02:47,083 --> 01:02:47,750 governed, at 185 01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:48,416 least in a free 186 01:02:48,416 --> 01:02:48,916 and fair 187 01:02:48,916 --> 01:02:49,958 democracy, 188 01:02:50,333 --> 01:02:51,000 starts with the 189 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:52,416 voter. Sure. And 190 01:02:52,416 --> 01:02:53,291 you've published 191 01:02:53,291 --> 01:02:53,916 already about 192 01:02:53,916 --> 01:02:54,375 that. You 193 01:02:54,375 --> 01:02:54,958 published a new 194 01:02:54,958 --> 01:02:55,583 book about 195 01:02:55,583 --> 01:02:58,000 that. And I had 196 01:02:58,000 --> 01:02:58,375 the chance 197 01:02:58,375 --> 01:02:59,041 because you made 198 01:02:59,041 --> 01:02:59,541 a presentation 199 01:02:59,541 --> 01:03:00,500 last time to 200 01:03:00,500 --> 01:03:01,000 separate 201 01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:01,833 the first 202 01:03:01,875 --> 01:03:02,375 draft of the 203 01:03:02,375 --> 01:03:03,750 book. So I 204 01:03:03,750 --> 01:03:04,750 remember I see 205 01:03:04,750 --> 01:03:05,666 that, I don't 206 01:03:05,666 --> 01:03:05,958 know how it's 207 01:03:05,958 --> 01:03:06,208 called in 208 01:03:06,208 --> 01:03:06,625 English, 209 01:03:06,625 --> 01:03:07,000 but you know, 210 01:03:07,083 --> 01:03:07,666 to who you 211 01:03:07,666 --> 01:03:11,000 dedicate, was it 212 01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:12,541 one of your 213 01:03:12,541 --> 01:03:13,583 family? Yeah, to 214 01:03:13,583 --> 01:03:15,083 my kids, to each 215 01:03:15,083 --> 01:03:15,875 of my kids. And 216 01:03:15,875 --> 01:03:16,083 you were 217 01:03:16,083 --> 01:03:17,500 saying that you 218 01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:18,125 hope that they 219 01:03:18,125 --> 01:03:18,833 will see how much 220 01:03:18,833 --> 01:03:19,916 you contributed. 221 01:03:20,166 --> 01:03:20,625 I mean, that you 222 01:03:20,625 --> 01:03:21,625 fight for 223 01:03:21,625 --> 01:03:22,291 democracy, let's 224 01:03:22,291 --> 01:03:23,000 say, and that you 225 01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:23,541 were hoping that 226 01:03:23,541 --> 01:03:24,166 they do the same, 227 01:03:24,166 --> 01:03:24,958 right? Yeah. I 228 01:03:24,958 --> 01:03:25,125 mean, I 229 01:03:25,125 --> 01:03:25,541 think that 230 01:03:25,750 --> 01:03:26,291 it's really 231 01:03:26,291 --> 01:03:27,000 important to 232 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:27,833 engage young 233 01:03:27,833 --> 01:03:28,583 people in 234 01:03:28,583 --> 01:03:29,500 democracy. You 235 01:03:29,500 --> 01:03:29,916 know, I always 236 01:03:29,916 --> 01:03:30,291 encourage people 237 01:03:31,125 --> 01:03:31,666 to bring their 238 01:03:31,666 --> 01:03:32,291 kids along with 239 01:03:32,291 --> 01:03:32,875 them when they go 240 01:03:32,875 --> 01:03:33,500 vote. We always 241 01:03:33,500 --> 01:03:34,500 go vote as a 242 01:03:34,500 --> 01:03:34,916 family. 243 01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:36,291 And we talk 244 01:03:36,291 --> 01:03:37,500 about issues of 245 01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:38,791 democracy, you 246 01:03:38,791 --> 01:03:39,250 know, at the 247 01:03:39,250 --> 01:03:39,833 dinner table, 248 01:03:39,833 --> 01:03:40,333 essentially, 249 01:03:41,208 --> 01:03:41,750 because I think 250 01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:42,416 it does start 251 01:03:42,416 --> 01:03:42,875 with young 252 01:03:42,875 --> 01:03:43,791 people. You know, 253 01:03:43,791 --> 01:03:44,250 one of the things 254 01:03:44,250 --> 01:03:44,708 that's really 255 01:03:44,708 --> 01:03:46,125 discouraging is 256 01:03:46,125 --> 01:03:46,333 that 257 01:03:46,333 --> 01:03:47,041 voter turnout 258 01:03:47,125 --> 01:03:47,708 among young 259 01:03:47,708 --> 01:03:48,750 people is low. 260 01:03:49,500 --> 01:03:50,166 You know, it 261 01:03:50,166 --> 01:03:51,416 increases as you 262 01:03:51,416 --> 01:03:52,875 get older. And I 263 01:03:52,875 --> 01:03:53,375 think one 264 01:03:53,375 --> 01:03:54,083 way to really 265 01:03:54,083 --> 01:03:55,208 reform, at least 266 01:03:55,208 --> 01:03:55,583 American 267 01:03:55,583 --> 01:03:56,333 democracy and 268 01:03:56,333 --> 01:03:56,833 probably 269 01:03:56,833 --> 01:03:57,708 democracies all 270 01:03:57,708 --> 01:03:58,375 around the world, 271 01:03:58,375 --> 01:03:59,250 is to better 272 01:03:59,291 --> 01:03:59,916 engage young 273 01:03:59,916 --> 01:04:00,583 people. So I 274 01:04:00,583 --> 01:04:01,416 dedicated the 275 01:04:01,416 --> 01:04:02,958 book to them. You 276 01:04:02,958 --> 01:04:03,875 know, they're 12 277 01:04:03,875 --> 01:04:04,333 and eight 278 01:04:04,333 --> 01:04:05,041 right now. 279 01:04:05,583 --> 01:04:06,166 So they're not 280 01:04:06,166 --> 01:04:07,458 quite voting age, 281 01:04:07,666 --> 01:04:08,208 but it won't be 282 01:04:08,208 --> 01:04:09,375 too long. And I 283 01:04:09,375 --> 01:04:09,833 hope they and 284 01:04:09,833 --> 01:04:10,500 their generation 285 01:04:10,708 --> 01:04:11,791 are engaged 286 01:04:11,791 --> 01:04:13,000 citizens. For 287 01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:14,208 you, it's crystal 288 01:04:14,208 --> 01:04:15,125 clear that it's 289 01:04:15,125 --> 01:04:15,750 so important 290 01:04:15,750 --> 01:04:16,541 democracy, etc. 291 01:04:16,958 --> 01:04:17,500 And I mean, your 292 01:04:17,500 --> 01:04:18,291 wish now is to 293 01:04:18,291 --> 01:04:18,875 have people more 294 01:04:18,875 --> 01:04:19,416 committed to 295 01:04:19,416 --> 01:04:20,583 that. And so for 296 01:04:20,583 --> 01:04:21,083 many people, 297 01:04:21,083 --> 01:04:21,708 it's not that 298 01:04:21,708 --> 01:04:22,958 clear. And how do 299 01:04:22,958 --> 01:04:23,625 you explain that 300 01:04:23,625 --> 01:04:24,916 some people are 301 01:04:24,916 --> 01:04:26,041 more reluctant or 302 01:04:26,041 --> 01:04:26,625 less interested 303 01:04:27,125 --> 01:04:27,791 and don't feel 304 01:04:27,791 --> 01:04:28,625 the same passion 305 01:04:28,625 --> 01:04:29,875 as you have for 306 01:04:29,875 --> 01:04:30,458 the end 307 01:04:30,458 --> 01:04:31,000 democratic 308 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:31,458 rights? 309 01:04:32,708 --> 01:04:33,166 Well, I think, 310 01:04:33,375 --> 01:04:33,916 you know, part of 311 01:04:33,916 --> 01:04:34,416 the problem is 312 01:04:34,416 --> 01:04:35,583 that people 313 01:04:35,583 --> 01:04:36,958 sometimes are 314 01:04:36,958 --> 01:04:38,166 suffering from 315 01:04:38,166 --> 01:04:38,750 their own 316 01:04:38,958 --> 01:04:39,791 issues, you know, 317 01:04:39,791 --> 01:04:40,166 whether it's 318 01:04:40,166 --> 01:04:40,916 poverty, whether 319 01:04:40,916 --> 01:04:42,250 it's the daily 320 01:04:42,250 --> 01:04:43,083 life and the 321 01:04:43,083 --> 01:04:43,583 struggles 322 01:04:43,583 --> 01:04:44,041 of daily 323 01:04:44,083 --> 01:04:45,125 life. And they 324 01:04:45,125 --> 01:04:46,791 don't see how 325 01:04:46,791 --> 01:04:47,791 democracy can 326 01:04:47,791 --> 01:04:48,500 help their 327 01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:49,500 everyday lives. 328 01:04:49,500 --> 01:04:50,416 So I think we as 329 01:04:50,416 --> 01:04:50,833 academics 330 01:04:51,041 --> 01:04:52,291 and just people 331 01:04:52,291 --> 01:04:53,500 in general need 332 01:04:53,500 --> 01:04:54,125 to do a better 333 01:04:54,125 --> 01:04:55,625 job of explaining 334 01:04:55,625 --> 01:04:56,333 to those 335 01:04:56,333 --> 01:04:57,500 individuals why 336 01:04:57,500 --> 01:04:58,041 democracy 337 01:04:58,041 --> 01:04:58,916 actually matters 338 01:04:58,916 --> 01:04:59,458 and can help 339 01:04:59,458 --> 01:05:00,125 them. You know, 340 01:05:00,125 --> 01:05:00,708 it can come down 341 01:05:00,708 --> 01:05:01,583 to the smallest 342 01:05:01,583 --> 01:05:02,125 thing, like 343 01:05:02,333 --> 01:05:03,166 you have a 344 01:05:03,166 --> 01:05:04,041 pothole on your 345 01:05:04,041 --> 01:05:05,125 street, right, 346 01:05:05,125 --> 01:05:05,583 that it's, you 347 01:05:05,583 --> 01:05:06,416 know, harder to 348 01:05:06,416 --> 01:05:06,958 or public 349 01:05:06,958 --> 01:05:07,500 transportation 350 01:05:07,916 --> 01:05:08,541 is not as 351 01:05:08,541 --> 01:05:09,708 reliable. Well, 352 01:05:09,708 --> 01:05:10,250 what can you do 353 01:05:10,250 --> 01:05:10,916 about that? You 354 01:05:10,916 --> 01:05:11,708 can get leaders 355 01:05:11,708 --> 01:05:12,416 who will 356 01:05:12,416 --> 01:05:13,625 respond to 357 01:05:13,666 --> 01:05:14,708 the people, you 358 01:05:14,708 --> 01:05:15,625 know, in a true 359 01:05:15,625 --> 01:05:16,166 representative 360 01:05:16,166 --> 01:05:17,583 democracy, where 361 01:05:17,583 --> 01:05:18,500 you can vote the 362 01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:19,166 bums out if 363 01:05:19,208 --> 01:05:19,875 you don't like 364 01:05:19,875 --> 01:05:20,375 what they're 365 01:05:20,375 --> 01:05:20,708 doing. 366 01:05:21,333 --> 01:05:21,875 Politicians, at 367 01:05:21,875 --> 01:05:22,666 least should be 368 01:05:22,666 --> 01:05:23,125 responsive 369 01:05:23,125 --> 01:05:23,875 to the people 370 01:05:24,250 --> 01:05:24,916 because they're 371 01:05:24,916 --> 01:05:26,125 fearful that in 372 01:05:26,125 --> 01:05:26,375 the next 373 01:05:26,375 --> 01:05:27,250 election, they 374 01:05:27,250 --> 01:05:28,791 won't win. And so 375 01:05:28,791 --> 01:05:29,750 I think what we 376 01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:30,208 need to do 377 01:05:30,208 --> 01:05:31,208 is explain to 378 01:05:31,208 --> 01:05:32,416 people who are 379 01:05:32,416 --> 01:05:33,166 disillusioned 380 01:05:33,166 --> 01:05:33,916 with democracy, 381 01:05:33,916 --> 01:05:35,166 how it actually 382 01:05:35,166 --> 01:05:35,916 impacts their 383 01:05:35,916 --> 01:05:36,208 everyday 384 01:05:36,250 --> 01:05:37,791 lives. I'm 385 01:05:37,791 --> 01:05:38,000 wondering 386 01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:38,750 something about 387 01:05:38,750 --> 01:05:39,458 it's a reflection 388 01:05:39,458 --> 01:05:40,375 that I have for 389 01:05:40,375 --> 01:05:41,000 quite a 390 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:41,916 long time. 391 01:05:42,166 --> 01:05:42,833 What tools are 392 01:05:42,833 --> 01:05:43,083 you suggesting 393 01:05:43,083 --> 01:05:43,958 that we should 394 01:05:43,958 --> 01:05:44,833 explain to people 395 01:05:44,833 --> 01:05:45,583 and make them 396 01:05:45,583 --> 01:05:46,000 show why 397 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:46,916 Fabio Bolan, I 398 01:05:46,916 --> 01:05:47,333 totally 399 01:05:47,333 --> 01:05:48,208 understand. I 400 01:05:48,208 --> 01:05:49,083 agree as well. 401 01:05:49,583 --> 01:05:49,958 I'm wondering 402 01:05:49,958 --> 01:05:50,875 about the means 403 01:05:50,875 --> 01:05:51,416 to do that, 404 01:05:51,583 --> 01:05:52,625 because, you 405 01:05:52,625 --> 01:05:53,666 know, if you look 406 01:05:53,666 --> 01:05:54,250 at the statistic 407 01:05:54,250 --> 01:05:54,833 and you've said 408 01:05:54,833 --> 01:05:55,500 it just before, 409 01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:56,041 younger 410 01:05:56,041 --> 01:05:56,833 generation, they 411 01:05:56,833 --> 01:05:57,333 are even less 412 01:05:57,333 --> 01:05:57,916 interested, they 413 01:05:57,916 --> 01:05:58,958 go less to vote, 414 01:05:59,208 --> 01:05:59,666 and maybe 415 01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,083 they are less 416 01:06:01,083 --> 01:06:01,708 into democracy 417 01:06:01,708 --> 01:06:02,291 than older 418 01:06:02,291 --> 01:06:02,916 generation. There 419 01:06:02,916 --> 01:06:03,125 are some 420 01:06:03,125 --> 01:06:03,833 statistics about 421 01:06:03,833 --> 01:06:04,833 that. So, 422 01:06:05,875 --> 01:06:06,708 I'm wondering 423 01:06:06,708 --> 01:06:08,208 also if the fact 424 01:06:08,208 --> 01:06:08,708 to actually 425 01:06:08,708 --> 01:06:09,708 explain to them, 426 01:06:09,708 --> 01:06:10,166 like, what is 427 01:06:10,166 --> 01:06:10,791 good for them, 428 01:06:11,041 --> 01:06:11,791 actually, there 429 01:06:11,791 --> 01:06:12,500 could also be 430 01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:13,541 some, you know, 431 01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:15,458 teenage reaction 432 01:06:15,458 --> 01:06:16,208 where I don't 433 01:06:16,208 --> 01:06:16,916 like to be told 434 01:06:16,916 --> 01:06:17,666 what I should do, 435 01:06:17,666 --> 01:06:18,083 you know, or I 436 01:06:18,083 --> 01:06:18,958 don't like, okay, 437 01:06:18,958 --> 01:06:19,333 you tell me 438 01:06:19,333 --> 01:06:20,041 what's good, but 439 01:06:20,041 --> 01:06:20,833 you're not my 440 01:06:20,958 --> 01:06:22,125 parent, I'm free, 441 01:06:22,375 --> 01:06:23,041 I prefer to have 442 01:06:23,041 --> 01:06:23,916 maybe something 443 01:06:23,916 --> 01:06:24,708 else than voting, 444 01:06:24,958 --> 01:06:25,291 something else 445 01:06:25,291 --> 01:06:25,958 than democracy. 446 01:06:26,375 --> 01:06:26,708 Like, people 447 01:06:26,708 --> 01:06:27,333 don't like to be 448 01:06:27,333 --> 01:06:28,416 told what to do, 449 01:06:28,416 --> 01:06:29,000 even at the same 450 01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:29,375 time. It's not 451 01:06:29,375 --> 01:06:30,041 only teenage, 452 01:06:30,041 --> 01:06:30,750 I say teenage. 453 01:06:30,750 --> 01:06:31,791 But so, do you 454 01:06:31,791 --> 01:06:32,250 think that's part 455 01:06:32,250 --> 01:06:32,833 of the problem? 456 01:06:33,250 --> 01:06:34,250 Or what do you 457 01:06:34,250 --> 01:06:34,791 think about that? 458 01:06:34,916 --> 01:06:35,791 So, one thing we 459 01:06:35,791 --> 01:06:36,916 really need to 460 01:06:36,916 --> 01:06:38,125 fix and improve 461 01:06:38,125 --> 01:06:38,791 is civics 462 01:06:38,791 --> 01:06:39,791 education in 463 01:06:39,791 --> 01:06:40,125 schools, 464 01:06:40,125 --> 01:06:40,625 right? So, 465 01:06:40,666 --> 01:06:41,583 one thing we have 466 01:06:41,583 --> 01:06:42,708 in all modern 467 01:06:42,708 --> 01:06:44,000 democracies is 468 01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:45,375 kids are going to 469 01:06:45,375 --> 01:06:46,333 school. And so, 470 01:06:46,333 --> 01:06:47,458 we have a captive 471 01:06:47,583 --> 01:06:49,083 audience. And 472 01:06:49,083 --> 01:06:50,041 it's more than 473 01:06:50,041 --> 01:06:51,041 just telling them 474 01:06:51,041 --> 01:06:51,750 democracy is 475 01:06:51,750 --> 01:06:52,458 good, you 476 01:06:52,458 --> 01:06:53,083 actually have to 477 01:06:53,083 --> 01:06:53,708 show it, 478 01:06:53,708 --> 01:06:54,125 and you actually 479 01:06:54,125 --> 01:06:55,833 have to help them 480 01:06:55,833 --> 01:06:57,125 recognize the 481 01:06:57,125 --> 01:06:57,625 power. And so, 482 01:06:57,625 --> 01:06:58,000 I'll tell you a 483 01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:58,583 quick story, 484 01:06:58,583 --> 01:06:58,833 where the 485 01:06:58,833 --> 01:06:59,875 students were to 486 01:06:59,875 --> 01:07:01,333 look at a problem 487 01:07:01,333 --> 01:07:02,083 that they faced 488 01:07:02,083 --> 01:07:02,791 in their everyday 489 01:07:02,791 --> 01:07:03,750 lives and 490 01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:04,166 figure out 491 01:07:04,166 --> 01:07:05,000 if they can try 492 01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:06,708 to solve it. And 493 01:07:06,708 --> 01:07:07,500 one problem that 494 01:07:07,500 --> 01:07:08,000 the students 495 01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:08,583 themselves 496 01:07:08,583 --> 01:07:09,750 recognized was 497 01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:10,541 that a lot 498 01:07:10,583 --> 01:07:11,500 of kids were late 499 01:07:11,500 --> 01:07:12,000 to school. 500 01:07:12,583 --> 01:07:13,458 Tardiness was a 501 01:07:13,458 --> 01:07:14,666 big problem. And 502 01:07:14,666 --> 01:07:15,458 when they dived 503 01:07:15,458 --> 01:07:16,041 down to figure 504 01:07:16,041 --> 01:07:16,750 out why, 505 01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:17,666 they realized 506 01:07:17,666 --> 01:07:18,583 that a lot of the 507 01:07:18,583 --> 01:07:19,291 students didn't 508 01:07:19,291 --> 01:07:20,250 have reliable 509 01:07:20,250 --> 01:07:20,875 transportation. 510 01:07:21,208 --> 01:07:21,583 These were high 511 01:07:21,583 --> 01:07:22,125 school students. 512 01:07:22,625 --> 01:07:23,541 The kids went to 513 01:07:23,541 --> 01:07:24,291 the city council 514 01:07:24,291 --> 01:07:25,000 and convinced 515 01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:25,875 them to pass a 516 01:07:25,875 --> 01:07:26,541 law, and 517 01:07:26,541 --> 01:07:26,958 the program 518 01:07:26,958 --> 01:07:27,791 is known as kids 519 01:07:27,791 --> 01:07:29,166 ride free. And 520 01:07:29,166 --> 01:07:30,041 then the next 521 01:07:30,041 --> 01:07:30,708 school year, 522 01:07:31,208 --> 01:07:31,875 tardiness went 523 01:07:31,875 --> 01:07:32,375 down. 524 01:07:32,375 --> 01:07:32,833 Kids were not 525 01:07:32,833 --> 01:07:33,708 showing up late 526 01:07:33,708 --> 01:07:34,625 as much because 527 01:07:34,625 --> 01:07:35,625 they can now get 528 01:07:35,625 --> 01:07:36,583 to the school 529 01:07:36,583 --> 01:07:37,916 with free public 530 01:07:37,916 --> 01:07:38,500 transportation. 531 01:07:38,916 --> 01:07:39,791 I don't think any 532 01:07:39,791 --> 01:07:40,458 of those students 533 01:07:40,458 --> 01:07:41,416 will ever forget 534 01:07:41,416 --> 01:07:42,458 the power of 535 01:07:42,458 --> 01:07:43,541 local democracy 536 01:07:43,541 --> 01:07:44,625 to change 537 01:07:44,791 --> 01:07:45,916 their lives, to 538 01:07:45,916 --> 01:07:46,375 change the 539 01:07:46,375 --> 01:07:47,208 reality of their 540 01:07:47,208 --> 01:07:47,875 everyday 541 01:07:47,875 --> 01:07:49,000 problems. And so, 542 01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:49,250 that's 543 01:07:49,250 --> 01:07:49,666 the sort of 544 01:07:49,666 --> 01:07:50,125 thing we need to 545 01:07:50,125 --> 01:07:50,916 do in the 546 01:07:50,916 --> 01:07:52,000 scholarship world 547 01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:52,708 of education 548 01:07:52,708 --> 01:07:53,875 policy. It's 549 01:07:53,875 --> 01:07:54,208 known as 550 01:07:54,208 --> 01:07:55,208 action civics, 551 01:07:55,458 --> 01:07:56,458 teaching students 552 01:07:56,458 --> 01:07:57,208 not just by 553 01:07:57,208 --> 01:07:57,750 telling them to 554 01:07:57,750 --> 01:07:58,291 memorize 555 01:07:58,291 --> 01:07:59,375 different aspects 556 01:07:59,375 --> 01:08:00,000 of how 557 01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:01,041 government works 558 01:08:01,583 --> 01:08:02,750 or, you know, in 559 01:08:02,750 --> 01:08:03,916 America, we often 560 01:08:03,916 --> 01:08:04,416 say, well, 561 01:08:04,416 --> 01:08:04,916 students need to 562 01:08:04,916 --> 01:08:05,791 be able to recite 563 01:08:05,791 --> 01:08:06,250 the declaration 564 01:08:06,541 --> 01:08:07,208 of independence. 565 01:08:07,791 --> 01:08:08,375 That's boring. 566 01:08:08,875 --> 01:08:09,083 That's 567 01:08:09,083 --> 01:08:09,791 memorization. 568 01:08:10,208 --> 01:08:10,583 That doesn't 569 01:08:10,583 --> 01:08:11,875 instill in them 570 01:08:11,875 --> 01:08:13,458 the value of 571 01:08:13,458 --> 01:08:14,000 democratic 572 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:15,083 engagement. But 573 01:08:15,083 --> 01:08:16,041 an action civics 574 01:08:16,041 --> 01:08:16,916 project like they 575 01:08:16,916 --> 01:08:17,291 did in 576 01:08:17,291 --> 01:08:18,125 Washington, DC, 577 01:08:18,666 --> 01:08:19,333 certainly would. 578 01:08:20,250 --> 01:08:20,625 Here, also, the 579 01:08:20,625 --> 01:08:21,166 difference that I 580 01:08:21,166 --> 01:08:22,125 see from before 581 01:08:22,125 --> 01:08:22,500 what I was 582 01:08:22,500 --> 01:08:22,958 saying, like 583 01:08:22,958 --> 01:08:23,375 people 584 01:08:23,375 --> 01:08:23,916 don't like to be 585 01:08:23,916 --> 01:08:25,833 told what to do. 586 01:08:25,833 --> 01:08:26,791 Here, not only 587 01:08:26,791 --> 01:08:27,750 you're saying 588 01:08:27,750 --> 01:08:28,291 it's not about 589 01:08:28,291 --> 01:08:28,875 the message, 590 01:08:28,875 --> 01:08:29,000 telling 591 01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:29,583 them, oh, good 592 01:08:29,583 --> 01:08:30,291 quality to do it 593 01:08:30,291 --> 01:08:30,666 for democracy, 594 01:08:31,041 --> 01:08:31,458 but actually 595 01:08:31,458 --> 01:08:32,333 making them live 596 01:08:32,333 --> 01:08:32,750 that and 597 01:08:32,750 --> 01:08:33,333 experience that 598 01:08:33,333 --> 01:08:33,750 by themselves 599 01:08:33,875 --> 01:08:34,666 that they really 600 01:08:34,666 --> 01:08:35,625 feel that in 601 01:08:35,625 --> 01:08:36,041 their own. 602 01:08:36,250 --> 01:08:37,083 Exactly, exactly 603 01:08:37,083 --> 01:08:37,791 right. Another 604 01:08:37,791 --> 01:08:38,416 reform that 605 01:08:38,416 --> 01:08:38,875 I'm excited 606 01:08:38,875 --> 01:08:40,458 about is lowering 607 01:08:40,458 --> 01:08:41,500 the voting age to 608 01:08:41,500 --> 01:08:42,541 16, at least for 609 01:08:42,541 --> 01:08:43,541 local elections. 610 01:08:44,333 --> 01:08:44,833 Studies show that 611 01:08:44,833 --> 01:08:45,500 18 is not 612 01:08:45,500 --> 01:08:46,500 a great age to 613 01:08:46,500 --> 01:08:47,291 start the habit 614 01:08:47,291 --> 01:08:48,458 of voting. At 615 01:08:48,458 --> 01:08:49,083 least in America, 616 01:08:49,541 --> 01:08:50,791 kids are moving 617 01:08:50,791 --> 01:08:51,083 out of 618 01:08:51,083 --> 01:08:51,625 their home. 619 01:08:51,875 --> 01:08:52,166 They're either 620 01:08:52,166 --> 01:08:52,875 going to 621 01:08:52,875 --> 01:08:54,166 university or 622 01:08:54,166 --> 01:08:54,625 they're entering 623 01:08:54,625 --> 01:08:56,166 the workforce. We 624 01:08:56,166 --> 01:08:56,750 move a lot in 625 01:08:56,750 --> 01:08:57,041 America, 626 01:08:57,041 --> 01:08:57,708 and so people are 627 01:08:57,708 --> 01:08:58,500 often moving far 628 01:08:58,500 --> 01:08:59,208 away from home. 629 01:08:59,666 --> 01:09:00,083 Now we have 630 01:09:00,083 --> 01:09:00,833 various voting 631 01:09:00,833 --> 01:09:01,666 laws that 632 01:09:01,666 --> 01:09:01,916 make you 633 01:09:01,916 --> 01:09:02,958 register to vote, 634 01:09:03,166 --> 01:09:03,791 obtain the right 635 01:09:03,791 --> 01:09:04,666 kind of ID 636 01:09:05,083 --> 01:09:05,500 There's so much 637 01:09:05,500 --> 01:09:06,208 going on in an 638 01:09:06,208 --> 01:09:06,958 18-year-old's 639 01:09:06,958 --> 01:09:07,083 life, 640 01:09:07,083 --> 01:09:07,833 it's no wonder 641 01:09:07,833 --> 01:09:08,583 that voting is 642 01:09:08,583 --> 01:09:09,500 not a priority. 643 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:10,541 But if we lower 644 01:09:10,541 --> 01:09:11,458 the voting age to 645 01:09:11,458 --> 01:09:12,375 16, maybe 646 01:09:12,375 --> 01:09:12,833 just for 647 01:09:12,833 --> 01:09:13,791 local elections 648 01:09:13,791 --> 01:09:14,625 or school board 649 01:09:14,625 --> 01:09:15,541 elections, we 650 01:09:15,541 --> 01:09:16,083 have them all 651 01:09:16,083 --> 01:09:16,750 there still in 652 01:09:16,750 --> 01:09:18,000 school. We can 653 01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:18,333 get them 654 01:09:18,333 --> 01:09:19,083 registered. We 655 01:09:19,083 --> 01:09:19,958 can educate them 656 01:09:19,958 --> 01:09:21,500 properly. And 657 01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:22,375 what's happened, 658 01:09:22,375 --> 01:09:23,000 there's about six 659 01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:23,500 cities in 660 01:09:23,500 --> 01:09:23,791 the United 661 01:09:23,833 --> 01:09:24,958 States, mostly in 662 01:09:24,958 --> 01:09:25,583 Maryland and 663 01:09:25,583 --> 01:09:26,791 California, that 664 01:09:26,791 --> 01:09:27,416 have done this, 665 01:09:27,416 --> 01:09:27,833 that have lowered 666 01:09:27,833 --> 01:09:28,291 the voting age 667 01:09:28,333 --> 01:09:29,583 to 16 for local 668 01:09:29,583 --> 01:09:30,250 elections or 669 01:09:30,250 --> 01:09:30,583 school board 670 01:09:30,583 --> 01:09:31,541 elections. And 671 01:09:31,541 --> 01:09:32,000 what the study 672 01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:32,500 shows is that 673 01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:33,208 voter turnout 674 01:09:33,208 --> 01:09:34,291 jumps about 675 01:09:34,291 --> 01:09:35,875 double for 16 and 676 01:09:35,875 --> 01:09:36,958 17-year-olds as 677 01:09:36,958 --> 01:09:38,083 compared to 18 to 678 01:09:38,083 --> 01:09:39,083 24-year-olds. So 679 01:09:39,125 --> 01:09:39,833 it seems to make 680 01:09:39,833 --> 01:09:40,500 a big difference. 681 01:09:41,041 --> 01:09:41,666 And then the idea 682 01:09:41,666 --> 01:09:42,666 is that if you 683 01:09:42,666 --> 01:09:44,333 start voting in 684 01:09:44,333 --> 01:09:44,625 the first 685 01:09:44,625 --> 01:09:45,208 election when 686 01:09:45,208 --> 01:09:45,750 you're eligible, 687 01:09:45,750 --> 01:09:46,625 you're much more 688 01:09:46,625 --> 01:09:47,458 likely to become 689 01:09:47,458 --> 01:09:48,375 a habitual voter. 690 01:09:48,791 --> 01:09:49,208 And studies 691 01:09:49,208 --> 01:09:50,208 also show that if 692 01:09:50,208 --> 01:09:50,750 you miss the 693 01:09:50,750 --> 01:09:51,375 first election 694 01:09:51,375 --> 01:09:52,375 when you are an 695 01:09:52,375 --> 01:09:53,416 eligible voter, 696 01:09:53,708 --> 01:09:54,125 you're much 697 01:09:54,125 --> 01:09:54,458 more likely 698 01:09:54,500 --> 01:09:55,375 to become a 699 01:09:55,375 --> 01:09:55,750 habitual 700 01:09:55,750 --> 01:09:56,875 non-voter. And so 701 01:09:56,875 --> 01:09:57,458 I think one key 702 01:09:57,458 --> 01:09:58,041 is to figure out 703 01:09:58,041 --> 01:09:58,833 how do we get 704 01:09:58,833 --> 01:09:59,458 young people 705 01:09:59,666 --> 01:10:01,000 to start engaging 706 01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:02,250 earlier on so 707 01:10:02,250 --> 01:10:02,708 that they become 708 01:10:02,708 --> 01:10:03,541 lifelong voters. 709 01:10:03,916 --> 01:10:04,291 Scotland is a 710 01:10:04,291 --> 01:10:04,875 great example of 711 01:10:04,875 --> 01:10:05,375 this, where it 712 01:10:05,375 --> 01:10:05,708 lowered the 713 01:10:05,708 --> 01:10:06,666 voting age for 714 01:10:06,666 --> 01:10:07,250 the independence 715 01:10:07,250 --> 01:10:09,750 referendum. Both 716 01:10:09,750 --> 01:10:10,916 sides, both major 717 01:10:10,916 --> 01:10:11,250 political 718 01:10:11,250 --> 01:10:12,416 parties, saw it 719 01:10:12,416 --> 01:10:13,750 as a success, and 720 01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:14,208 then they lowered 721 01:10:14,208 --> 01:10:14,666 the voting age 722 01:10:14,666 --> 01:10:15,041 for all 723 01:10:15,041 --> 01:10:15,750 elections in 724 01:10:15,750 --> 01:10:16,375 Scotland. And I 725 01:10:16,375 --> 01:10:16,916 think the results 726 01:10:16,916 --> 01:10:17,416 have been pretty 727 01:10:17,416 --> 01:10:18,500 positive in terms 728 01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:19,500 of engagement of 729 01:10:19,500 --> 01:10:19,958 young people. 730 01:10:20,250 --> 01:10:20,791 So if the 731 01:10:20,791 --> 01:10:21,375 question is also 732 01:10:21,375 --> 01:10:22,166 about creating a 733 01:10:22,166 --> 01:10:23,291 habit, so there's 734 01:10:23,291 --> 01:10:24,000 of course this 735 01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:25,125 age limit that we 736 01:10:25,125 --> 01:10:25,500 can lower, 737 01:10:25,750 --> 01:10:26,458 but also would 738 01:10:26,458 --> 01:10:27,500 you be in favor 739 01:10:27,500 --> 01:10:28,708 of making vote 740 01:10:28,708 --> 01:10:29,583 compulsory? I 741 01:10:29,583 --> 01:10:30,291 think so, yeah. 742 01:10:30,833 --> 01:10:31,208 You know, some 743 01:10:31,208 --> 01:10:31,750 countries have 744 01:10:31,750 --> 01:10:32,291 done that. 745 01:10:32,291 --> 01:10:33,125 Australia is the 746 01:10:33,125 --> 01:10:33,833 example that most 747 01:10:33,833 --> 01:10:34,833 people point to. 748 01:10:35,166 --> 01:10:36,041 Belgium, because 749 01:10:36,041 --> 01:10:36,333 Belgium. 750 01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:37,833 Certainly, yeah. 751 01:10:38,375 --> 01:10:39,166 You know, other 752 01:10:39,166 --> 01:10:39,916 places like I 753 01:10:39,916 --> 01:10:40,541 think Argentina 754 01:10:40,541 --> 01:10:41,875 has compulsory 755 01:10:41,875 --> 01:10:43,041 voting. 16 and 756 01:10:43,041 --> 01:10:43,833 17-year-olds 757 01:10:43,833 --> 01:10:44,416 are allowed to 758 01:10:44,416 --> 01:10:44,625 vote in 759 01:10:44,625 --> 01:10:45,166 Argentina, but 760 01:10:45,166 --> 01:10:45,416 it's not 761 01:10:45,416 --> 01:10:46,041 compulsory, but 762 01:10:46,041 --> 01:10:46,791 once 18, I 763 01:10:46,791 --> 01:10:48,375 believe it's 764 01:10:48,375 --> 01:10:48,541 compulsory 765 01:10:48,750 --> 01:10:50,166 there. I was 766 01:10:50,166 --> 01:10:50,708 actually part of 767 01:10:50,708 --> 01:10:51,458 a working group 768 01:10:51,458 --> 01:10:52,291 in America 769 01:10:52,291 --> 01:10:52,875 through the 770 01:10:52,875 --> 01:10:53,125 Brookings 771 01:10:53,125 --> 01:10:54,125 Institution that 772 01:10:54,125 --> 01:10:54,666 looked at 773 01:10:54,666 --> 01:10:55,041 compulsory 774 01:10:55,041 --> 01:10:56,291 voting. We called 775 01:10:56,291 --> 01:10:56,916 it universal 776 01:10:56,916 --> 01:10:58,166 voting. I think 777 01:10:58,166 --> 01:10:58,583 it sounds a 778 01:10:58,583 --> 01:10:59,250 little bit nicer, 779 01:10:59,250 --> 01:11:00,000 universal civic 780 01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:01,833 duty voting. And 781 01:11:01,833 --> 01:11:02,916 the idea here is 782 01:11:02,916 --> 01:11:03,416 that, yeah, I 783 01:11:03,416 --> 01:11:04,208 think that would 784 01:11:04,208 --> 01:11:04,625 solve a 785 01:11:04,625 --> 01:11:04,916 lot of the 786 01:11:04,916 --> 01:11:05,500 problems. I mean, 787 01:11:05,500 --> 01:11:06,125 one of the things 788 01:11:06,125 --> 01:11:06,958 it would do was 789 01:11:06,958 --> 01:11:08,041 going to take 790 01:11:08,041 --> 01:11:08,625 away what 791 01:11:08,625 --> 01:11:09,208 sometimes is 792 01:11:09,208 --> 01:11:09,500 referred 793 01:11:09,500 --> 01:11:10,458 to as the voting 794 01:11:10,458 --> 01:11:11,625 wars in America, 795 01:11:11,625 --> 01:11:12,958 where the parties 796 01:11:12,958 --> 01:11:13,791 are fighting over 797 01:11:13,791 --> 01:11:14,083 who's 798 01:11:14,083 --> 01:11:14,666 allowed to vote, 799 01:11:14,750 --> 01:11:15,333 and we're passing 800 01:11:15,333 --> 01:11:16,375 all these voting 801 01:11:16,375 --> 01:11:17,625 rules that lead 802 01:11:17,625 --> 01:11:18,000 to voter 803 01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:18,500 suppression, 804 01:11:18,958 --> 01:11:19,375 especially when 805 01:11:19,375 --> 01:11:19,958 it comes to 806 01:11:19,958 --> 01:11:20,375 minority 807 01:11:20,375 --> 01:11:21,250 individuals. We 808 01:11:21,250 --> 01:11:21,875 obviously have a 809 01:11:21,875 --> 01:11:22,250 very sorry 810 01:11:22,250 --> 01:11:23,208 history of racism 811 01:11:23,208 --> 01:11:24,125 in America, and 812 01:11:24,125 --> 01:11:24,833 it exists 813 01:11:24,958 --> 01:11:25,833 still to this day 814 01:11:25,833 --> 01:11:26,500 with respect to a 815 01:11:26,500 --> 01:11:26,958 lot of voting 816 01:11:26,958 --> 01:11:27,500 policies. 817 01:11:28,458 --> 01:11:29,125 Universal voting, 818 01:11:29,125 --> 01:11:29,458 I think, 819 01:11:29,458 --> 01:11:29,958 would fix a 820 01:11:29,958 --> 01:11:31,416 lot of that. Now, 821 01:11:31,541 --> 01:11:33,125 I'm not so naive 822 01:11:33,125 --> 01:11:34,208 as to think that 823 01:11:34,208 --> 01:11:34,916 it's likely to 824 01:11:34,916 --> 01:11:36,250 pass in America 825 01:11:36,250 --> 01:11:37,166 nationwide, 826 01:11:37,458 --> 01:11:38,083 but I think the 827 01:11:38,083 --> 01:11:38,583 countries that 828 01:11:38,583 --> 01:11:39,583 have it see a lot 829 01:11:39,583 --> 01:11:40,541 of positivity 830 01:11:40,541 --> 01:11:41,541 with respect to 831 01:11:41,541 --> 01:11:42,458 voter turnout and 832 01:11:42,500 --> 01:11:43,291 voter engagement. 833 01:11:43,708 --> 01:11:44,375 And in fact, the 834 01:11:44,375 --> 01:11:45,125 electorates in 835 01:11:45,125 --> 01:11:45,666 those countries 836 01:11:45,666 --> 01:11:46,416 often are much 837 01:11:46,416 --> 01:11:47,125 better educated 838 01:11:47,458 --> 01:11:48,416 on civic issues 839 01:11:48,416 --> 01:11:49,208 than in other 840 01:11:49,208 --> 01:11:50,000 countries. 841 01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:50,208 That would be 842 01:11:50,208 --> 01:11:51,125 interesting to 843 01:11:51,125 --> 01:11:52,416 have a statistic. 844 01:11:52,416 --> 01:11:52,625 I don't know 845 01:11:52,625 --> 01:11:53,375 if you have them 846 01:11:53,375 --> 01:11:54,208 or whatever, but 847 01:11:54,208 --> 01:11:55,291 maybe not, of 848 01:11:55,291 --> 01:11:55,625 course, about 849 01:11:55,625 --> 01:11:56,083 that they're not 850 01:11:56,083 --> 01:11:56,750 that wouldn't say 851 01:11:56,750 --> 01:11:57,375 much, but about 852 01:11:57,375 --> 01:11:58,125 how people 853 01:11:58,125 --> 01:11:58,833 support 854 01:11:58,833 --> 01:11:59,500 democracy, like 855 01:11:59,500 --> 01:11:59,916 what is the 856 01:11:59,916 --> 01:12:00,333 attitude of 857 01:12:00,333 --> 01:12:00,750 people for 858 01:12:00,750 --> 01:12:01,208 democracy. 859 01:12:01,708 --> 01:12:02,208 So Belgium, 860 01:12:02,208 --> 01:12:02,458 Australia 861 01:12:02,458 --> 01:12:03,458 compared to 862 01:12:03,458 --> 01:12:04,333 Vancouver, it's 863 01:12:04,333 --> 01:12:05,000 not compulsory. 864 01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:05,458 Does the fact 865 01:12:05,458 --> 01:12:05,833 make it 866 01:12:05,833 --> 01:12:06,208 compulsory 867 01:12:06,666 --> 01:12:07,083 make people 868 01:12:07,083 --> 01:12:07,666 actually like 869 01:12:07,666 --> 01:12:08,250 more democracy? 870 01:12:08,750 --> 01:12:09,166 Well, one thing 871 01:12:09,166 --> 01:12:09,750 you can look at 872 01:12:09,750 --> 01:12:09,958 with 873 01:12:09,958 --> 01:12:10,875 respect to that is 874 01:12:11,458 --> 01:12:12,250 how many people 875 01:12:12,250 --> 01:12:13,416 submit a blank 876 01:12:13,416 --> 01:12:15,125 ballot or in the 877 01:12:15,125 --> 01:12:15,666 countries that 878 01:12:15,666 --> 01:12:16,583 allow it have a 879 01:12:16,583 --> 01:12:17,250 none of the above 880 01:12:17,375 --> 01:12:18,833 option. So it's 881 01:12:18,833 --> 01:12:19,833 not requiring you 882 01:12:19,833 --> 01:12:20,416 to vote for a 883 01:12:20,416 --> 01:12:20,750 specific 884 01:12:20,750 --> 01:12:21,875 candidate, but 885 01:12:21,875 --> 01:12:22,958 requiring you to 886 01:12:22,958 --> 01:12:23,333 submit a 887 01:12:23,333 --> 01:12:24,000 ballot, either 888 01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,000 blank or choosing 889 01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:26,541 none of the 890 01:12:26,541 --> 01:12:27,708 candidates. And 891 01:12:27,708 --> 01:12:28,666 yet what you see 892 01:12:28,666 --> 01:12:28,958 in these 893 01:12:28,958 --> 01:12:29,250 countries 894 01:12:29,250 --> 01:12:29,791 is that it's a 895 01:12:29,791 --> 01:12:30,250 pretty small 896 01:12:30,250 --> 01:12:31,208 percentage of 897 01:12:31,208 --> 01:12:32,791 people who do 898 01:12:32,791 --> 01:12:33,750 that. And so that 899 01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:34,500 suggests, at 900 01:12:34,500 --> 01:12:35,000 least to me, 901 01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:35,375 it doesn't prove 902 01:12:35,375 --> 01:12:35,666 it, but it 903 01:12:35,666 --> 01:12:36,333 suggests that 904 01:12:36,333 --> 01:12:37,125 people are 905 01:12:37,125 --> 01:12:38,000 engaged enough to 906 01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:38,375 choose a 907 01:12:38,375 --> 01:12:39,166 candidate. We do 908 01:12:39,208 --> 01:12:39,916 know that some 909 01:12:39,916 --> 01:12:40,500 studies show 910 01:12:40,500 --> 01:12:41,500 that, again, 911 01:12:41,500 --> 01:12:42,041 voter education 912 01:12:42,041 --> 01:12:43,416 is better in 913 01:12:43,416 --> 01:12:44,166 those countries 914 01:12:44,166 --> 01:12:45,000 than in, 915 01:12:45,041 --> 01:12:45,833 say, the United 916 01:12:45,833 --> 01:12:47,583 States. But to 917 01:12:47,583 --> 01:12:48,333 me, the fact that 918 01:12:48,333 --> 01:12:48,916 there are not a 919 01:12:48,916 --> 01:12:49,750 large number of 920 01:12:49,750 --> 01:12:50,916 ballots that are 921 01:12:50,916 --> 01:12:51,666 voting for no 922 01:12:51,666 --> 01:12:52,125 candidate 923 01:12:52,125 --> 01:12:53,000 suggests that 924 01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:53,583 people are 925 01:12:53,583 --> 01:12:54,291 engaged and 926 01:12:54,291 --> 01:12:54,833 committed, at 927 01:12:54,833 --> 01:12:55,416 least to 928 01:12:55,416 --> 01:12:56,041 vote for a 929 01:12:56,041 --> 01:12:56,416 particular 930 01:12:56,416 --> 01:12:57,500 candidate. Now, 931 01:12:57,500 --> 01:12:57,875 there's a lot of 932 01:12:57,875 --> 01:12:58,333 other voting 933 01:12:58,333 --> 01:12:58,958 reforms we could 934 01:12:58,958 --> 01:12:59,333 talk about. 935 01:12:59,625 --> 01:12:59,958 Ranked choice 936 01:12:59,958 --> 01:13:00,666 voting, I think, 937 01:13:00,666 --> 01:13:01,250 has a lot of 938 01:13:01,250 --> 01:13:02,416 promises as well. 939 01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:04,291 Again, yeah, and 940 01:13:04,291 --> 01:13:05,333 again, to help 941 01:13:05,333 --> 01:13:06,208 engage people and 942 01:13:06,250 --> 01:13:07,250 give them better 943 01:13:07,250 --> 01:13:07,791 choices and 944 01:13:07,791 --> 01:13:08,916 actually be able 945 01:13:08,916 --> 01:13:09,750 to show their 946 01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:11,000 preferences. Actually, 947 01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:11,375 doing my 948 01:13:11,375 --> 01:13:12,333 PhD thesis on 949 01:13:12,333 --> 01:13:13,291 similar topics, 950 01:13:13,291 --> 01:13:13,833 so I will talk 951 01:13:13,833 --> 01:13:14,458 about it just 952 01:13:14,458 --> 01:13:16,958 after. But yeah, 953 01:13:16,958 --> 01:13:17,708 you said I'm 954 01:13:17,708 --> 01:13:18,125 not so nice 955 01:13:18,125 --> 01:13:18,791 to think that in 956 01:13:18,791 --> 01:13:19,500 the U.S. such 957 01:13:19,500 --> 01:13:20,458 laws could pass. 958 01:13:20,916 --> 01:13:21,500 And why do you 959 01:13:21,500 --> 01:13:22,250 think so? Is it 960 01:13:22,250 --> 01:13:23,166 about politics, 961 01:13:23,166 --> 01:13:23,708 because people 962 01:13:23,708 --> 01:13:24,083 don't have an 963 01:13:24,083 --> 01:13:24,875 advantage to have 964 01:13:24,875 --> 01:13:26,416 everyone allowed 965 01:13:26,416 --> 01:13:27,375 to vote? I think 966 01:13:27,375 --> 01:13:27,791 it's more than 967 01:13:27,791 --> 01:13:28,708 just politics. I 968 01:13:28,708 --> 01:13:29,500 think Americans 969 01:13:29,500 --> 01:13:31,250 have a real sense 970 01:13:31,250 --> 01:13:32,583 of individuality 971 01:13:32,583 --> 01:13:34,166 and freedom from 972 01:13:34,166 --> 01:13:34,458 government 973 01:13:35,375 --> 01:13:36,791 dictates. You 974 01:13:36,791 --> 01:13:37,833 know, when Barack 975 01:13:37,833 --> 01:13:38,375 Obama was 976 01:13:38,375 --> 01:13:39,541 president and he 977 01:13:39,541 --> 01:13:40,041 passed, helped 978 01:13:40,041 --> 01:13:40,541 pass the 979 01:13:40,541 --> 01:13:41,166 Affordable Care 980 01:13:41,208 --> 01:13:42,000 Act, also known 981 01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:43,000 as Obamacare for 982 01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:43,291 health care 983 01:13:43,291 --> 01:13:44,166 coverage, there's 984 01:13:44,166 --> 01:13:44,583 a lot of 985 01:13:44,583 --> 01:13:45,000 resistance 986 01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:45,583 to people 987 01:13:45,583 --> 01:13:46,083 just getting 988 01:13:46,083 --> 01:13:46,708 health care 989 01:13:46,708 --> 01:13:47,458 coverage, even 990 01:13:47,458 --> 01:13:47,666 though the 991 01:13:47,666 --> 01:13:48,166 government was 992 01:13:48,166 --> 01:13:48,791 going to provide 993 01:13:48,791 --> 01:13:49,541 it. There's this 994 01:13:49,541 --> 01:13:50,541 whole notion of 995 01:13:50,541 --> 01:13:51,791 the talking line 996 01:13:51,791 --> 01:13:52,125 was the 997 01:13:52,125 --> 01:13:52,708 government can't 998 01:13:52,708 --> 01:13:53,166 make me eat 999 01:13:53,166 --> 01:13:54,500 broccoli, you 1000 01:13:54,500 --> 01:13:54,916 know, can't make 1001 01:13:54,916 --> 01:13:55,625 me be healthier. 1002 01:13:56,208 --> 01:13:57,416 So there's just a 1003 01:13:57,416 --> 01:13:58,041 streak of 1004 01:13:58,041 --> 01:13:59,250 individuality. I 1005 01:13:59,250 --> 01:13:59,916 do think the way 1006 01:13:59,916 --> 01:14:00,500 to go about it 1007 01:14:00,750 --> 01:14:01,541 in America would 1008 01:14:01,541 --> 01:14:02,166 be to see if we 1009 01:14:02,166 --> 01:14:02,875 could get a city 1010 01:14:02,875 --> 01:14:04,375 to pass it in a 1011 01:14:04,375 --> 01:14:05,208 state that would 1012 01:14:05,208 --> 01:14:06,750 allow a city to 1013 01:14:06,750 --> 01:14:07,416 enact its own 1014 01:14:07,416 --> 01:14:08,666 voting rules. If 1015 01:14:08,666 --> 01:14:09,500 a city were to 1016 01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:10,208 pass it for its 1017 01:14:10,208 --> 01:14:10,791 elections, we 1018 01:14:10,791 --> 01:14:11,291 would have at 1019 01:14:11,291 --> 01:14:11,625 least some 1020 01:14:11,625 --> 01:14:12,416 good data about 1021 01:14:12,416 --> 01:14:13,375 how it works, 1022 01:14:13,375 --> 01:14:14,166 what the problems 1023 01:14:14,166 --> 01:14:15,375 are, and 1024 01:14:15,375 --> 01:14:15,958 hopefully a 1025 01:14:15,958 --> 01:14:16,625 success story. 1026 01:14:16,875 --> 01:14:17,333 That's exactly 1027 01:14:17,333 --> 01:14:17,875 what happened 1028 01:14:17,875 --> 01:14:18,250 with ranked 1029 01:14:18,250 --> 01:14:19,000 choice voting in 1030 01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:19,958 America. Now, it 1031 01:14:19,958 --> 01:14:20,625 started in San 1032 01:14:20,625 --> 01:14:21,291 Francisco in 1033 01:14:21,291 --> 01:14:22,750 2002, spread 1034 01:14:22,750 --> 01:14:23,291 to some other 1035 01:14:23,291 --> 01:14:24,625 cities, Portland, 1036 01:14:24,875 --> 01:14:25,708 Oregon, Portland, 1037 01:14:25,708 --> 01:14:26,833 Maine, some 1038 01:14:26,833 --> 01:14:27,291 places in 1039 01:14:27,291 --> 01:14:27,750 Minnesota, 1040 01:14:28,333 --> 01:14:28,708 St. Paul in 1041 01:14:28,750 --> 01:14:29,125 Minneapolis, 1042 01:14:29,708 --> 01:14:30,291 Minnesota, and 1043 01:14:30,291 --> 01:14:30,791 now it's being 1044 01:14:30,791 --> 01:14:32,000 used statewide in 1045 01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:32,333 the state of 1046 01:14:32,333 --> 01:14:33,416 Maine, in 1047 01:14:33,416 --> 01:14:35,083 Alaska, and 1048 01:14:35,083 --> 01:14:35,875 Nevada voters 1049 01:14:35,875 --> 01:14:37,375 will vote this 1050 01:14:37,375 --> 01:14:38,166 November as to 1051 01:14:38,166 --> 01:14:38,833 whether to adopt 1052 01:14:38,833 --> 01:14:39,791 it. The Nevada 1053 01:14:39,791 --> 01:14:40,208 Constitution 1054 01:14:40,208 --> 01:14:40,541 is a little 1055 01:14:40,541 --> 01:14:41,875 weird in that the 1056 01:14:41,875 --> 01:14:42,416 voters have to 1057 01:14:42,416 --> 01:14:42,916 pass something 1058 01:14:42,916 --> 01:14:43,750 two elections in 1059 01:14:43,750 --> 01:14:44,458 a row for it to 1060 01:14:44,458 --> 01:14:44,583 take 1061 01:14:44,583 --> 01:14:45,958 hold, and the 1062 01:14:45,958 --> 01:14:46,625 voters pass it 1063 01:14:46,625 --> 01:14:47,458 once already two 1064 01:14:47,458 --> 01:14:48,083 years ago, and so 1065 01:14:48,083 --> 01:14:48,500 they're going to 1066 01:14:48,500 --> 01:14:49,000 get the measure 1067 01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:49,958 again. So we're 1068 01:14:49,958 --> 01:14:51,000 seeing this local 1069 01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:51,958 reform for ranked 1070 01:14:51,958 --> 01:14:52,500 choice voting 1071 01:14:52,500 --> 01:14:53,333 spread to other 1072 01:14:53,333 --> 01:14:54,000 cities, but now 1073 01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:55,333 other states as 1074 01:14:55,375 --> 01:14:56,416 well. So maybe 1075 01:14:56,416 --> 01:14:57,125 because maybe not 1076 01:14:57,125 --> 01:14:57,625 everyone is 1077 01:14:57,625 --> 01:14:58,125 familiar with 1078 01:14:58,125 --> 01:14:58,541 that. I think 1079 01:14:58,541 --> 01:14:59,041 it's in 1080 01:14:59,041 --> 01:14:59,833 Europe, maybe 1081 01:14:59,833 --> 01:15:00,666 in Ireland it was 1082 01:15:00,666 --> 01:15:01,625 used, but can you 1083 01:15:01,625 --> 01:15:02,208 explain briefly 1084 01:15:02,208 --> 01:15:02,750 what's ranked 1085 01:15:02,750 --> 01:15:03,750 voting? Yeah, so 1086 01:15:03,750 --> 01:15:04,458 instead of having 1087 01:15:04,458 --> 01:15:05,166 to vote for just 1088 01:15:05,166 --> 01:15:06,416 one candidate on 1089 01:15:06,416 --> 01:15:07,208 the ballot, you 1090 01:15:07,208 --> 01:15:08,000 get to rank order 1091 01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:08,583 your preferences. 1092 01:15:08,875 --> 01:15:09,166 Like this 1093 01:15:09,166 --> 01:15:09,708 person first, 1094 01:15:09,958 --> 01:15:10,416 this person 1095 01:15:10,416 --> 01:15:11,083 second, this 1096 01:15:11,083 --> 01:15:12,125 person third, and 1097 01:15:12,125 --> 01:15:13,125 so on. And then 1098 01:15:13,125 --> 01:15:13,375 the 1099 01:15:13,375 --> 01:15:14,041 counting, the way the 1100 01:15:14,041 --> 01:15:14,833 counting works is 1101 01:15:14,833 --> 01:15:15,750 essentially we 1102 01:15:15,750 --> 01:15:16,208 look at which 1103 01:15:16,208 --> 01:15:16,625 candidate 1104 01:15:16,625 --> 01:15:17,708 refused, which 1105 01:15:17,708 --> 01:15:18,000 candidate 1106 01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:19,125 received the 1107 01:15:19,125 --> 01:15:19,916 fewest first 1108 01:15:19,916 --> 01:15:21,208 place votes. That 1109 01:15:21,208 --> 01:15:21,750 candidate is 1110 01:15:21,750 --> 01:15:22,875 eliminated, and 1111 01:15:22,875 --> 01:15:23,500 the ballots are 1112 01:15:23,500 --> 01:15:24,000 redistributed 1113 01:15:24,250 --> 01:15:24,833 so that the 1114 01:15:24,833 --> 01:15:25,708 second choice on 1115 01:15:25,708 --> 01:15:26,083 that ballot 1116 01:15:26,083 --> 01:15:27,041 counts. And you 1117 01:15:27,041 --> 01:15:27,541 basically keep 1118 01:15:27,541 --> 01:15:28,666 doing that until 1119 01:15:28,666 --> 01:15:29,000 you have 1120 01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:29,541 a candidate that 1121 01:15:29,541 --> 01:15:30,875 has 50 percent of 1122 01:15:30,875 --> 01:15:31,500 the vote. So 1123 01:15:31,500 --> 01:15:31,958 instead of a 1124 01:15:31,958 --> 01:15:33,125 situation where a 1125 01:15:33,125 --> 01:15:33,333 candidate 1126 01:15:33,333 --> 01:15:33,958 wins with 1127 01:15:33,958 --> 01:15:34,958 maybe 30 or 40 1128 01:15:34,958 --> 01:15:35,583 percent of the 1129 01:15:35,583 --> 01:15:36,333 total vote, even 1130 01:15:36,333 --> 01:15:36,875 though they had 1131 01:15:36,875 --> 01:15:37,916 the most votes, 1132 01:15:38,250 --> 01:15:38,791 now you have a 1133 01:15:38,791 --> 01:15:39,291 much more of a 1134 01:15:39,291 --> 01:15:39,791 consensus 1135 01:15:39,791 --> 01:15:40,708 candidate. We 1136 01:15:40,708 --> 01:15:41,250 have much more of 1137 01:15:41,250 --> 01:15:41,958 a consensus, and 1138 01:15:41,958 --> 01:15:42,708 also I 1139 01:15:42,708 --> 01:15:43,250 mean one big 1140 01:15:43,250 --> 01:15:43,958 advantage that I 1141 01:15:43,958 --> 01:15:44,500 see in that, that 1142 01:15:44,500 --> 01:15:45,041 is for example 1143 01:15:45,041 --> 01:15:45,625 with the French 1144 01:15:45,625 --> 01:15:46,458 system that I'm more 1145 01:15:46,458 --> 01:15:47,083 familiar with, 1146 01:15:47,333 --> 01:15:47,625 that it 1147 01:15:47,625 --> 01:15:48,125 eliminates what 1148 01:15:48,125 --> 01:15:48,750 we call the vote 1149 01:15:48,750 --> 01:15:49,333 utility, like 1150 01:15:49,333 --> 01:15:50,416 useful vote. So 1151 01:15:50,416 --> 01:15:51,500 for example, you 1152 01:15:51,500 --> 01:15:51,916 are really 1153 01:15:51,958 --> 01:15:52,666 into a candidate, 1154 01:15:52,875 --> 01:15:53,250 but that would be 1155 01:15:53,250 --> 01:15:53,916 just five percent 1156 01:15:53,916 --> 01:15:54,875 of the vote. Then 1157 01:15:54,875 --> 01:15:55,166 there are 1158 01:15:55,166 --> 01:15:55,708 someone who's 1159 01:15:55,708 --> 01:15:56,791 doing, who has a 1160 01:15:56,791 --> 01:15:57,250 chance to be 1161 01:15:57,250 --> 01:15:57,833 elected, an 1162 01:15:57,833 --> 01:15:58,500 actual chance to 1163 01:15:58,500 --> 01:15:59,000 be elected as 1164 01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,041 president. And 1165 01:16:00,041 --> 01:16:00,541 for example, 1166 01:16:00,750 --> 01:16:01,375 people don't like 1167 01:16:01,375 --> 01:16:02,375 Macron, but don't 1168 01:16:02,375 --> 01:16:02,958 like even less 1169 01:16:02,958 --> 01:16:03,541 Repen or V 1170 01:16:03,541 --> 01:16:05,291 and they like a 1171 01:16:05,291 --> 01:16:06,625 very more leftist 1172 01:16:06,625 --> 01:16:08,000 candidate, just 1173 01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:09,291 for instance. And 1174 01:16:09,291 --> 01:16:10,416 with that, they 1175 01:16:10,416 --> 01:16:11,083 can put their 1176 01:16:11,083 --> 01:16:11,333 favorite 1177 01:16:11,333 --> 01:16:12,125 candidate first, 1178 01:16:12,500 --> 01:16:13,125 and then second, 1179 01:16:13,375 --> 01:16:13,708 they can put 1180 01:16:13,708 --> 01:16:14,541 Macron more. 1181 01:16:14,875 --> 01:16:15,458 And then the 1182 01:16:15,458 --> 01:16:16,208 Repen, if they 1183 01:16:16,208 --> 01:16:17,208 like less, V, 1184 01:16:17,416 --> 01:16:18,458 they. And in 1185 01:16:18,458 --> 01:16:19,000 America we call 1186 01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:19,708 that the spoiler 1187 01:16:19,708 --> 01:16:20,416 effect, or 1188 01:16:20,416 --> 01:16:20,791 the spoiler 1189 01:16:20,875 --> 01:16:21,500 vote, that you're 1190 01:16:21,500 --> 01:16:22,833 voting for the 1191 01:16:22,833 --> 01:16:23,416 lesser of two 1192 01:16:23,416 --> 01:16:24,333 evils, you have 1193 01:16:24,333 --> 01:16:24,833 to choose that, 1194 01:16:24,833 --> 01:16:25,583 or you vote for 1195 01:16:25,583 --> 01:16:26,291 the third party 1196 01:16:26,291 --> 01:16:26,791 candidate, 1197 01:16:27,416 --> 01:16:28,958 which can spoil 1198 01:16:28,958 --> 01:16:29,791 the results 1199 01:16:29,791 --> 01:16:30,666 essentially. And 1200 01:16:30,666 --> 01:16:31,041 there are 1201 01:16:31,041 --> 01:16:31,625 examples where 1202 01:16:31,625 --> 01:16:32,083 this made a 1203 01:16:32,083 --> 01:16:32,750 difference. So in 1204 01:16:32,750 --> 01:16:33,416 the 2000 1205 01:16:33,458 --> 01:16:33,916 presidential 1206 01:16:33,916 --> 01:16:34,625 election in 1207 01:16:34,625 --> 01:16:35,666 America, between 1208 01:16:35,666 --> 01:16:36,708 George W Bush and 1209 01:16:36,708 --> 01:16:37,583 Al Gore, of 1210 01:16:37,583 --> 01:16:37,958 course that 1211 01:16:37,958 --> 01:16:38,333 election 1212 01:16:38,333 --> 01:16:38,958 came down to 1213 01:16:38,958 --> 01:16:41,166 Florida, and 537 1214 01:16:41,166 --> 01:16:41,958 votes out of 1215 01:16:41,958 --> 01:16:43,000 millions cast in 1216 01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:44,583 Florida changed 1217 01:16:44,583 --> 01:16:45,208 the result or 1218 01:16:45,208 --> 01:16:45,541 dictated 1219 01:16:45,541 --> 01:16:46,000 the result 1220 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:47,000 of George W Bush 1221 01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:48,000 winning the state 1222 01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:48,583 and therefore the 1223 01:16:48,583 --> 01:16:49,583 presidency. But 1224 01:16:49,583 --> 01:16:49,958 there were 1225 01:16:49,958 --> 01:16:50,333 thousands 1226 01:16:50,333 --> 01:16:50,750 of people 1227 01:16:50,875 --> 01:16:51,625 who voted for 1228 01:16:51,625 --> 01:16:52,666 Ralph Nader, a 1229 01:16:52,666 --> 01:16:53,166 green party 1230 01:16:53,166 --> 01:16:54,375 candidate, a 1231 01:16:54,375 --> 01:16:54,833 third party 1232 01:16:54,833 --> 01:16:55,291 candidate who had 1233 01:16:55,291 --> 01:16:55,750 no chance 1234 01:16:55,750 --> 01:16:56,125 of winning 1235 01:16:56,333 --> 01:16:57,083 in the electoral 1236 01:16:57,083 --> 01:16:58,791 college. If just 1237 01:16:58,791 --> 01:16:59,416 some of those 1238 01:16:59,416 --> 01:17:00,000 voters had 1239 01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:01,625 selected Al Gore 1240 01:17:01,625 --> 01:17:02,000 instead, 1241 01:17:02,708 --> 01:17:03,041 Gore would have 1242 01:17:03,041 --> 01:17:04,083 won Florida in 1243 01:17:04,083 --> 01:17:04,583 the presidency. 1244 01:17:05,083 --> 01:17:05,583 Now if we had had 1245 01:17:05,583 --> 01:17:06,083 a system of 1246 01:17:06,083 --> 01:17:06,333 ranked 1247 01:17:06,333 --> 01:17:06,958 choice voting, 1248 01:17:07,208 --> 01:17:07,958 it's probably 1249 01:17:07,958 --> 01:17:08,791 likely that the 1250 01:17:08,791 --> 01:17:09,541 Nader voters 1251 01:17:09,541 --> 01:17:10,333 would have put 1252 01:17:10,333 --> 01:17:11,166 Ralph Nader one 1253 01:17:11,166 --> 01:17:11,916 and Al Gore 1254 01:17:11,916 --> 01:17:12,875 two, because 1255 01:17:13,333 --> 01:17:14,000 Gore was a much 1256 01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:15,000 more palatable 1257 01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:15,791 choice for those 1258 01:17:15,791 --> 01:17:16,458 voters than 1259 01:17:16,458 --> 01:17:17,625 George W Bush. So 1260 01:17:17,625 --> 01:17:18,583 I do think that 1261 01:17:18,708 --> 01:17:19,333 something like 1262 01:17:19,333 --> 01:17:19,791 ranked choice 1263 01:17:19,791 --> 01:17:20,458 voting would have 1264 01:17:20,458 --> 01:17:21,208 actually changed 1265 01:17:21,208 --> 01:17:21,875 at least that 1266 01:17:21,875 --> 01:17:22,375 election, 1267 01:17:23,041 --> 01:17:23,208 potentially 1268 01:17:23,208 --> 01:17:23,875 others. You know 1269 01:17:23,875 --> 01:17:24,458 the election 1270 01:17:24,458 --> 01:17:26,208 between Trump and 1271 01:17:26,208 --> 01:17:27,250 Hillary Clinton 1272 01:17:27,250 --> 01:17:27,750 came down 1273 01:17:27,750 --> 01:17:28,166 to just a 1274 01:17:28,166 --> 01:17:28,833 handful of states 1275 01:17:28,833 --> 01:17:29,750 and not a lot of 1276 01:17:29,750 --> 01:17:30,291 votes in those 1277 01:17:30,291 --> 01:17:31,500 states. Same with 1278 01:17:31,500 --> 01:17:31,958 Trump versus 1279 01:17:31,958 --> 01:17:32,750 Biden in 2020. 1280 01:17:33,125 --> 01:17:33,750 Yeah, in the 1281 01:17:33,750 --> 01:17:34,541 longer term, so 1282 01:17:34,541 --> 01:17:36,000 it would not only 1283 01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:36,583 help for that 1284 01:17:36,583 --> 01:17:36,875 specific 1285 01:17:36,875 --> 01:17:37,291 election, 1286 01:17:37,291 --> 01:17:37,833 but since 1287 01:17:38,250 --> 01:17:39,041 the wish that you 1288 01:17:39,041 --> 01:17:39,708 have is to have 1289 01:17:39,708 --> 01:17:40,125 people more 1290 01:17:40,125 --> 01:17:41,166 committed, I also 1291 01:17:41,166 --> 01:17:41,625 believe that if 1292 01:17:41,625 --> 01:17:42,375 people can see 1293 01:17:42,500 --> 01:17:43,125 that their vote 1294 01:17:43,125 --> 01:17:43,541 is better 1295 01:17:43,541 --> 01:17:44,375 reflected in the 1296 01:17:44,375 --> 01:17:45,125 reason, maybe 1297 01:17:45,125 --> 01:17:45,625 there will be 1298 01:17:45,625 --> 01:17:46,541 much more into 1299 01:17:47,041 --> 01:17:47,916 vaccinating in 1300 01:17:47,916 --> 01:17:48,500 the democracy. I 1301 01:17:48,500 --> 01:17:48,958 think that's 1302 01:17:48,958 --> 01:17:49,916 right. And again, 1303 01:17:49,916 --> 01:17:50,541 the cities that 1304 01:17:50,541 --> 01:17:51,208 have 1305 01:17:51,208 --> 01:17:52,125 adopted it in the 1306 01:17:52,125 --> 01:17:53,000 U.S., we do see 1307 01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:54,041 better voter 1308 01:17:54,041 --> 01:17:55,041 engagement. So I 1309 01:17:55,041 --> 01:17:55,291 think that's 1310 01:17:55,291 --> 01:17:55,750 right. And you 1311 01:17:55,750 --> 01:17:56,958 know, people say, 1312 01:17:56,958 --> 01:17:57,458 well, it seems 1313 01:17:57,458 --> 01:17:58,375 more complicated, 1314 01:17:58,375 --> 01:17:59,041 but everyone has 1315 01:17:59,041 --> 01:18:00,125 preferences, has 1316 01:18:00,125 --> 01:18:00,583 preferences, 1317 01:18:00,583 --> 01:18:01,041 right? So 1318 01:18:01,041 --> 01:18:01,333 you know, 1319 01:18:01,333 --> 01:18:01,791 we're in Italy 1320 01:18:01,791 --> 01:18:02,791 right now. I love 1321 01:18:02,791 --> 01:18:03,750 gelato. And so I 1322 01:18:03,750 --> 01:18:04,291 like using the 1323 01:18:04,291 --> 01:18:05,208 example, if I go 1324 01:18:05,208 --> 01:18:05,916 into the local 1325 01:18:05,916 --> 01:18:07,125 gelato shop and 1326 01:18:07,125 --> 01:18:07,583 they don't have 1327 01:18:07,583 --> 01:18:08,000 my favorite 1328 01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:09,000 flavor, I don't 1329 01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:09,500 just leave 1330 01:18:09,500 --> 01:18:10,041 without any 1331 01:18:10,041 --> 01:18:10,875 gelato, right? I 1332 01:18:10,916 --> 01:18:11,541 get my second 1333 01:18:11,541 --> 01:18:13,083 choice. We all 1334 01:18:13,083 --> 01:18:13,666 have preferences. 1335 01:18:14,041 --> 01:18:14,875 And so shouldn't 1336 01:18:14,875 --> 01:18:15,500 we be able to 1337 01:18:15,500 --> 01:18:16,041 express those 1338 01:18:16,041 --> 01:18:16,833 preferences at 1339 01:18:16,833 --> 01:18:17,333 the ballot box? 1340 01:18:17,500 --> 01:18:17,958 That makes very 1341 01:18:17,958 --> 01:18:20,375 sense. Then back 1342 01:18:20,375 --> 01:18:21,083 to the statistic 1343 01:18:21,083 --> 01:18:21,708 where I was 1344 01:18:21,708 --> 01:18:22,291 saying that more 1345 01:18:22,291 --> 01:18:23,125 and more people 1346 01:18:23,125 --> 01:18:25,416 are not so into 1347 01:18:25,416 --> 01:18:27,166 democracy. How do 1348 01:18:27,166 --> 01:18:27,625 you explain 1349 01:18:27,625 --> 01:18:28,208 that? Because 1350 01:18:29,125 --> 01:18:29,666 so first, that 1351 01:18:29,666 --> 01:18:29,875 could be 1352 01:18:29,875 --> 01:18:30,500 education, of 1353 01:18:30,500 --> 01:18:31,041 course, like we 1354 01:18:31,041 --> 01:18:31,583 could do better, 1355 01:18:31,583 --> 01:18:32,166 like you say, 1356 01:18:32,166 --> 01:18:32,916 also make them 1357 01:18:32,916 --> 01:18:33,541 fill them with 1358 01:18:33,541 --> 01:18:34,625 value, etc. But 1359 01:18:34,625 --> 01:18:35,291 these are ways to 1360 01:18:35,291 --> 01:18:36,875 do it. How do you 1361 01:18:36,875 --> 01:18:38,041 explain that we 1362 01:18:38,041 --> 01:18:39,000 need, I have the 1363 01:18:39,041 --> 01:18:39,625 impression or 1364 01:18:39,625 --> 01:18:40,166 maybe you would 1365 01:18:40,166 --> 01:18:40,583 tell me the 1366 01:18:40,583 --> 01:18:41,541 opposite, but as 1367 01:18:41,541 --> 01:18:42,000 the impression, 1368 01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:42,458 we need more 1369 01:18:42,458 --> 01:18:43,541 and more to 1370 01:18:44,250 --> 01:18:45,041 provide even more 1371 01:18:45,041 --> 01:18:45,541 efforts to 1372 01:18:45,541 --> 01:18:46,125 convince people 1373 01:18:46,125 --> 01:18:47,166 that democracy is 1374 01:18:47,166 --> 01:18:48,583 a good thing. So 1375 01:18:48,583 --> 01:18:49,291 why do you think 1376 01:18:49,291 --> 01:18:50,833 people have to be 1377 01:18:50,833 --> 01:18:53,791 going far away 1378 01:18:53,791 --> 01:18:54,416 from democracy? 1379 01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:55,500 Well, you know, 1380 01:18:55,500 --> 01:18:56,250 this is not a 1381 01:18:56,250 --> 01:18:56,666 recent 1382 01:18:56,666 --> 01:18:57,291 phenomenon, 1383 01:18:57,916 --> 01:18:58,333 right? You know, 1384 01:18:58,333 --> 01:18:59,250 we've seen this 1385 01:18:59,250 --> 01:19:01,333 happen in, you 1386 01:19:01,333 --> 01:19:02,500 know, in Germany 1387 01:19:02,500 --> 01:19:03,833 in the 1940s, 1388 01:19:03,833 --> 01:19:04,125 right? Where, 1389 01:19:04,166 --> 01:19:05,416 you know, Hitler 1390 01:19:05,416 --> 01:19:06,625 was, you know, 1391 01:19:06,625 --> 01:19:07,250 became a leader 1392 01:19:07,250 --> 01:19:08,083 under a populist 1393 01:19:08,083 --> 01:19:10,041 idea. I don't 1394 01:19:10,041 --> 01:19:10,625 know enough about 1395 01:19:10,625 --> 01:19:11,750 the history of 1396 01:19:11,750 --> 01:19:12,666 Italy, but you 1397 01:19:12,666 --> 01:19:13,208 know, Mussolini, 1398 01:19:13,458 --> 01:19:14,625 I suspect, was 1399 01:19:14,625 --> 01:19:15,125 kind of came 1400 01:19:15,125 --> 01:19:15,666 about from 1401 01:19:15,666 --> 01:19:16,208 a similar 1402 01:19:16,416 --> 01:19:17,083 ideal of 1403 01:19:17,083 --> 01:19:18,041 populism, telling 1404 01:19:18,041 --> 01:19:18,708 the people what 1405 01:19:18,708 --> 01:19:19,583 they want to hear 1406 01:19:19,583 --> 01:19:20,291 what they think 1407 01:19:20,291 --> 01:19:20,916 they want 1408 01:19:20,916 --> 01:19:21,333 to hear, 1409 01:19:21,625 --> 01:19:22,375 which is really 1410 01:19:22,375 --> 01:19:23,041 more about 1411 01:19:23,041 --> 01:19:23,791 consolidating 1412 01:19:23,791 --> 01:19:24,500 power. 1413 01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:26,000 Unfortunately, I 1414 01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:26,750 think Trump is 1415 01:19:26,750 --> 01:19:27,583 leading down some 1416 01:19:27,583 --> 01:19:28,125 of those same 1417 01:19:28,125 --> 01:19:29,125 paths right now 1418 01:19:29,125 --> 01:19:29,750 in America, 1419 01:19:30,083 --> 01:19:31,083 telling, you 1420 01:19:31,083 --> 01:19:31,291 know, 1421 01:19:31,291 --> 01:19:31,500 particularly 1422 01:19:31,500 --> 01:19:32,500 poorer people, 1423 01:19:32,791 --> 01:19:33,916 only I can fix 1424 01:19:33,916 --> 01:19:34,833 it, only I can 1425 01:19:34,833 --> 01:19:36,458 help, and they 1426 01:19:36,458 --> 01:19:37,041 believe it. And 1427 01:19:37,041 --> 01:19:38,250 so I have to just 1428 01:19:38,250 --> 01:19:38,833 circle back 1429 01:19:38,833 --> 01:19:40,375 to education. I 1430 01:19:40,375 --> 01:19:41,458 think that if we 1431 01:19:41,458 --> 01:19:42,333 were to truly 1432 01:19:42,333 --> 01:19:43,000 educate people, 1433 01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:43,416 now there's a lot 1434 01:19:43,416 --> 01:19:43,666 of other 1435 01:19:43,666 --> 01:19:44,083 problems, 1436 01:19:44,083 --> 01:19:44,583 of course, with 1437 01:19:44,583 --> 01:19:45,541 media landscape, 1438 01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:46,708 with social 1439 01:19:46,708 --> 01:19:48,041 media, and you 1440 01:19:48,041 --> 01:19:49,250 know, AI now is 1441 01:19:49,250 --> 01:19:50,250 changing things. 1442 01:19:50,791 --> 01:19:51,958 So there's not 1443 01:19:51,958 --> 01:19:53,000 one cause here 1444 01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:53,458 and there's not 1445 01:19:53,458 --> 01:19:54,833 one solution. But 1446 01:19:54,833 --> 01:19:55,666 I do think if we 1447 01:19:55,666 --> 01:19:57,333 could double down 1448 01:19:57,375 --> 01:19:58,000 on our commitment 1449 01:19:58,000 --> 01:19:58,958 to education, 1450 01:19:59,791 --> 01:20:00,083 then these 1451 01:20:00,083 --> 01:20:01,166 populist ideals 1452 01:20:01,166 --> 01:20:02,333 perhaps would not 1453 01:20:02,333 --> 01:20:03,750 create or 1454 01:20:03,750 --> 01:20:04,583 would not have as 1455 01:20:04,583 --> 01:20:05,500 much sway among 1456 01:20:05,500 --> 01:20:06,125 so many people. 1457 01:20:06,750 --> 01:20:07,250 Before you do, 1458 01:20:07,250 --> 01:20:08,000 let me add one 1459 01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:08,458 more thing real 1460 01:20:08,458 --> 01:20:08,833 quick, by the 1461 01:20:08,833 --> 01:20:09,708 way. That's not 1462 01:20:09,708 --> 01:20:11,750 to say that only 1463 01:20:11,750 --> 01:20:12,583 uneducated people 1464 01:20:12,583 --> 01:20:13,583 are drawn to 1465 01:20:13,583 --> 01:20:14,500 these ideas of 1466 01:20:14,500 --> 01:20:15,208 anti-democracy. 1467 01:20:15,458 --> 01:20:15,583 There are 1468 01:20:15,583 --> 01:20:16,000 certainly very 1469 01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:16,791 many smart people 1470 01:20:16,791 --> 01:20:18,500 as well. And I 1471 01:20:18,500 --> 01:20:19,166 think that goes a 1472 01:20:19,166 --> 01:20:19,708 lot to political 1473 01:20:19,708 --> 01:20:20,958 power, right? So 1474 01:20:20,958 --> 01:20:21,791 people see the 1475 01:20:21,791 --> 01:20:22,625 desire for 1476 01:20:22,625 --> 01:20:23,375 political power. 1477 01:20:23,375 --> 01:20:24,083 And 1478 01:20:24,083 --> 01:20:24,791 sometimes that's 1479 01:20:24,791 --> 01:20:25,166 through 1480 01:20:25,166 --> 01:20:25,791 anti-democratic 1481 01:20:25,791 --> 01:20:27,791 forces. And so we 1482 01:20:27,791 --> 01:20:29,125 also need to 1483 01:20:29,125 --> 01:20:30,583 think about what 1484 01:20:30,583 --> 01:20:31,208 it means to 1485 01:20:31,208 --> 01:20:31,791 have power 1486 01:20:31,916 --> 01:20:34,000 in society and, 1487 01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:35,333 you know, why 1488 01:20:35,333 --> 01:20:36,416 there's a benefit 1489 01:20:36,416 --> 01:20:37,750 to what we call 1490 01:20:37,750 --> 01:20:38,291 America's checks 1491 01:20:38,291 --> 01:20:38,916 and balances, 1492 01:20:39,333 --> 01:20:39,791 right? Or this 1493 01:20:39,791 --> 01:20:40,500 diffusion of 1494 01:20:40,500 --> 01:20:42,416 power not in one 1495 01:20:42,416 --> 01:20:43,875 individual. So 1496 01:20:43,875 --> 01:20:44,583 according to 1497 01:20:44,583 --> 01:20:46,000 you, I mean, 1498 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:46,666 what's mainly 1499 01:20:46,666 --> 01:20:47,666 driving people 1500 01:20:47,666 --> 01:20:48,208 away from 1501 01:20:48,208 --> 01:20:49,875 democracy is that 1502 01:20:49,875 --> 01:20:50,916 they have some 1503 01:20:50,916 --> 01:20:51,833 needs which are 1504 01:20:51,833 --> 01:20:52,916 not fulfilled 1505 01:20:53,583 --> 01:20:55,125 or as I bet so 1506 01:20:55,125 --> 01:20:55,750 otherwise they 1507 01:20:55,750 --> 01:20:56,291 would feel 1508 01:20:56,291 --> 01:20:57,375 satisfied. And 1509 01:20:57,375 --> 01:20:58,291 there is one 1510 01:20:58,291 --> 01:20:59,125 candidate which 1511 01:20:59,125 --> 01:21:00,291 appeals to what 1512 01:21:00,291 --> 01:21:00,916 they want to 1513 01:21:00,916 --> 01:21:01,875 hear. Maybe it's 1514 01:21:01,875 --> 01:21:02,500 more populist 1515 01:21:02,500 --> 01:21:04,875 ideas. And this 1516 01:21:04,875 --> 01:21:06,000 is what makes 1517 01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:06,750 people turn 1518 01:21:06,750 --> 01:21:07,083 away from 1519 01:21:07,083 --> 01:21:07,916 democracy. I 1520 01:21:07,916 --> 01:21:08,208 think that's 1521 01:21:08,208 --> 01:21:08,833 right. I mean, 1522 01:21:08,833 --> 01:21:09,500 again, I think 1523 01:21:09,500 --> 01:21:10,083 there's multiple 1524 01:21:10,083 --> 01:21:10,916 causes. I don't 1525 01:21:10,916 --> 01:21:11,333 think we can 1526 01:21:11,333 --> 01:21:12,458 point to one 1527 01:21:12,458 --> 01:21:13,958 thing. But that 1528 01:21:13,958 --> 01:21:14,708 summary, I think, 1529 01:21:14,708 --> 01:21:16,500 is certainly one 1530 01:21:16,500 --> 01:21:18,250 cause of the 1531 01:21:18,250 --> 01:21:19,166 turn towards 1532 01:21:19,208 --> 01:21:20,000 anti-democracy 1533 01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:20,541 that we're seeing 1534 01:21:20,541 --> 01:21:21,291 in many places 1535 01:21:21,291 --> 01:21:21,791 right now. 1536 01:21:22,166 --> 01:21:22,541 Because one 1537 01:21:22,541 --> 01:21:23,291 explanation that 1538 01:21:23,291 --> 01:21:24,625 I have in 1539 01:21:24,625 --> 01:21:25,333 my mind is that 1540 01:21:25,333 --> 01:21:26,250 people are 1541 01:21:26,250 --> 01:21:26,833 actually turning 1542 01:21:26,833 --> 01:21:27,291 away from 1543 01:21:27,291 --> 01:21:28,041 democracy. But 1544 01:21:28,041 --> 01:21:28,333 it's very 1545 01:21:28,333 --> 01:21:28,666 compatible 1546 01:21:28,666 --> 01:21:29,041 with what 1547 01:21:29,041 --> 01:21:29,583 you just said, 1548 01:21:29,583 --> 01:21:30,041 actually. It's 1549 01:21:30,041 --> 01:21:30,541 aligned very 1550 01:21:30,541 --> 01:21:32,041 much. That maybe 1551 01:21:32,041 --> 01:21:32,958 it's because they 1552 01:21:32,958 --> 01:21:33,166 didn't 1553 01:21:33,166 --> 01:21:34,000 experience the 1554 01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:34,916 harm of not 1555 01:21:34,916 --> 01:21:35,541 having democracy. 1556 01:21:36,250 --> 01:21:37,041 Because now we 1557 01:21:37,041 --> 01:21:37,625 are a generation 1558 01:21:37,625 --> 01:21:38,541 that we got 1559 01:21:38,541 --> 01:21:38,958 spoiled. I 1560 01:21:38,958 --> 01:21:39,291 mean, we grew 1561 01:21:39,291 --> 01:21:39,500 up with 1562 01:21:39,500 --> 01:21:41,375 democracy. We are 1563 01:21:41,375 --> 01:21:42,083 good with that, 1564 01:21:42,083 --> 01:21:43,416 etc. And maybe, 1565 01:21:43,666 --> 01:21:44,041 you know, it's 1566 01:21:44,041 --> 01:21:44,416 just like 1567 01:21:44,416 --> 01:21:44,708 cigarettes. 1568 01:21:45,375 --> 01:21:46,125 If you've never 1569 01:21:46,125 --> 01:21:47,083 tried it, you see 1570 01:21:47,083 --> 01:21:47,500 it, it's a bit 1571 01:21:47,500 --> 01:21:48,416 attractive. You 1572 01:21:48,416 --> 01:21:48,833 want to try 1573 01:21:48,833 --> 01:21:49,458 something else, 1574 01:21:49,458 --> 01:21:50,333 you want, and 1575 01:21:50,333 --> 01:21:50,791 then you're 1576 01:21:50,791 --> 01:21:51,833 trying because 1577 01:21:51,833 --> 01:21:52,250 you don't know 1578 01:21:52,250 --> 01:21:52,750 what's the harm 1579 01:21:52,750 --> 01:21:53,458 of a cigarette 1580 01:21:53,458 --> 01:21:53,875 and I don't know 1581 01:21:53,875 --> 01:21:54,250 if it's a smoker 1582 01:21:54,250 --> 01:21:55,041 or something. But 1583 01:21:55,041 --> 01:21:55,833 once you get to 1584 01:21:55,833 --> 01:21:56,333 smoke, every 1585 01:21:56,333 --> 01:21:56,750 smoker 1586 01:21:56,750 --> 01:21:57,666 would say that 1587 01:21:57,750 --> 01:21:59,125 it produces many 1588 01:21:59,125 --> 01:21:59,916 bad effects for 1589 01:21:59,916 --> 01:22:00,500 them. Like they 1590 01:22:00,500 --> 01:22:01,250 don't feel good. 1591 01:22:01,250 --> 01:22:02,416 Maybe they feel 1592 01:22:02,416 --> 01:22:02,708 the need 1593 01:22:02,708 --> 01:22:03,208 not to have a 1594 01:22:03,208 --> 01:22:04,125 cigarette. And 1595 01:22:04,125 --> 01:22:04,958 maybe with 1596 01:22:04,958 --> 01:22:06,000 democracy, that's 1597 01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:06,625 also something 1598 01:22:06,625 --> 01:22:07,291 similar where if 1599 01:22:07,291 --> 01:22:07,583 you don't 1600 01:22:07,583 --> 01:22:08,541 get the, if you 1601 01:22:08,541 --> 01:22:08,958 don't know why 1602 01:22:08,958 --> 01:22:10,041 it's harming you, 1603 01:22:10,333 --> 01:22:10,958 then you just 1604 01:22:10,958 --> 01:22:11,375 want to try 1605 01:22:11,375 --> 01:22:11,916 something new. 1606 01:22:12,333 --> 01:22:12,791 Yeah, I think 1607 01:22:12,791 --> 01:22:13,375 that maybe is 1608 01:22:13,375 --> 01:22:14,333 right. And the 1609 01:22:14,333 --> 01:22:15,000 harms aren't 1610 01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:16,083 immediate, right? 1611 01:22:16,458 --> 01:22:17,166 So if you 1612 01:22:17,166 --> 01:22:18,416 start sliding 1613 01:22:18,958 --> 01:22:19,416 towards 1614 01:22:19,416 --> 01:22:20,166 anti-democracy, 1615 01:22:20,583 --> 01:22:21,000 you may not 1616 01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:21,916 recognize the 1617 01:22:21,916 --> 01:22:23,000 harms right away, 1618 01:22:23,250 --> 01:22:24,208 but slowly they 1619 01:22:24,208 --> 01:22:25,291 build upon each 1620 01:22:25,291 --> 01:22:26,416 other. And then 1621 01:22:26,416 --> 01:22:27,000 all of a sudden, 1622 01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:27,416 you're in a 1623 01:22:27,416 --> 01:22:28,000 situation where 1624 01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:28,500 it's hard to get 1625 01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:29,541 out of. So maybe 1626 01:22:29,541 --> 01:22:30,083 the cigarette 1627 01:22:30,083 --> 01:22:31,500 analogy is a good 1628 01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:32,958 one. So it's not 1629 01:22:32,958 --> 01:22:33,708 only that they 1630 01:22:33,708 --> 01:22:34,291 don't recognize 1631 01:22:34,291 --> 01:22:35,166 the harms because 1632 01:22:35,166 --> 01:22:35,666 they haven't 1633 01:22:35,666 --> 01:22:36,541 experienced it, 1634 01:22:36,541 --> 01:22:37,333 but that the 1635 01:22:37,333 --> 01:22:37,750 harms are 1636 01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:38,625 sometimes hard to 1637 01:22:38,625 --> 01:22:39,791 understand, or at 1638 01:22:39,791 --> 01:22:40,125 least hard to 1639 01:22:40,166 --> 01:22:41,250 grasp. And they 1640 01:22:41,250 --> 01:22:42,583 take a while to 1641 01:22:42,583 --> 01:22:44,125 see the actual 1642 01:22:44,125 --> 01:22:45,083 results. Yeah, 1643 01:22:45,250 --> 01:22:45,500 because then 1644 01:22:45,500 --> 01:22:46,458 after it's about 1645 01:22:47,208 --> 01:22:47,958 short term versus 1646 01:22:47,958 --> 01:22:48,791 long term effect. 1647 01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:49,625 So getting back 1648 01:22:49,625 --> 01:22:50,291 to the cigarette, 1649 01:22:50,291 --> 01:22:50,750 short term, you 1650 01:22:50,750 --> 01:22:51,250 get actually a 1651 01:22:51,250 --> 01:22:51,708 reward that 1652 01:22:51,708 --> 01:22:52,291 you're kind of 1653 01:22:52,291 --> 01:22:52,958 happy to smoke. 1654 01:22:53,500 --> 01:22:54,125 And maybe that's 1655 01:22:54,125 --> 01:22:54,750 only in the long 1656 01:22:54,750 --> 01:22:55,375 term that you see 1657 01:22:55,375 --> 01:22:55,750 effects. 1658 01:22:56,041 --> 01:22:57,208 Yeah. And the 1659 01:22:57,208 --> 01:22:57,583 other thing I 1660 01:22:57,583 --> 01:22:57,916 say, at least 1661 01:22:57,916 --> 01:22:58,916 about America and 1662 01:22:58,916 --> 01:22:59,375 the rise of 1663 01:22:59,375 --> 01:22:59,875 Donald Trump, 1664 01:23:00,208 --> 01:23:01,833 is that race also 1665 01:23:01,833 --> 01:23:02,750 plays a part in 1666 01:23:02,750 --> 01:23:03,458 this in the 1667 01:23:03,458 --> 01:23:04,166 American story, 1668 01:23:04,500 --> 01:23:06,250 right? That a lot 1669 01:23:06,250 --> 01:23:07,000 of white 1670 01:23:07,041 --> 01:23:08,500 individuals see a 1671 01:23:08,500 --> 01:23:09,750 threat to the 1672 01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:11,083 power that whites 1673 01:23:11,083 --> 01:23:11,958 have always had 1674 01:23:11,958 --> 01:23:13,208 in America, 1675 01:23:13,208 --> 01:23:13,500 especially 1676 01:23:13,500 --> 01:23:14,083 then with 1677 01:23:14,083 --> 01:23:14,583 the rise of 1678 01:23:14,583 --> 01:23:15,083 Barack Obama 1679 01:23:15,083 --> 01:23:16,000 becoming the 1680 01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:16,500 first black 1681 01:23:16,500 --> 01:23:17,375 president. And so 1682 01:23:17,375 --> 01:23:18,750 Trumpism, it's 1683 01:23:18,750 --> 01:23:19,541 not entirely 1684 01:23:19,541 --> 01:23:20,375 explained by 1685 01:23:20,375 --> 01:23:21,041 this, but I think 1686 01:23:21,041 --> 01:23:21,708 part of the 1687 01:23:21,708 --> 01:23:22,791 explanation also 1688 01:23:22,791 --> 01:23:23,500 is a backlash 1689 01:23:23,500 --> 01:23:24,291 with respect to 1690 01:23:24,333 --> 01:23:25,750 race, which again 1691 01:23:25,750 --> 01:23:26,333 goes back to 1692 01:23:26,333 --> 01:23:27,000 political power. 1693 01:23:27,458 --> 01:23:27,833 Do you think we 1694 01:23:27,833 --> 01:23:28,750 could expand not 1695 01:23:28,750 --> 01:23:29,000 only 1696 01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:29,875 race, but also 1697 01:23:29,875 --> 01:23:30,791 to more general 1698 01:23:30,791 --> 01:23:31,916 conservatives' 1699 01:23:32,291 --> 01:23:32,500 progressive 1700 01:23:32,500 --> 01:23:33,250 values? I mean, 1701 01:23:33,250 --> 01:23:33,791 culturally, so 1702 01:23:33,791 --> 01:23:33,916 for 1703 01:23:33,916 --> 01:23:34,458 example, even with 1704 01:23:35,208 --> 01:23:35,625 religion, 1705 01:23:36,208 --> 01:23:37,916 abortion, race, 1706 01:23:37,916 --> 01:23:38,791 etc., where some 1707 01:23:38,791 --> 01:23:39,625 people lived with 1708 01:23:39,625 --> 01:23:40,458 a model that they 1709 01:23:40,458 --> 01:23:41,291 had in mind, 1710 01:23:41,666 --> 01:23:43,416 and maybe they 1711 01:23:43,416 --> 01:23:44,000 feel frightened 1712 01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:45,416 because of what 1713 01:23:45,416 --> 01:23:45,750 they were 1714 01:23:45,750 --> 01:23:46,666 experiencing. So 1715 01:23:46,666 --> 01:23:47,000 what they are 1716 01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:47,500 used to, 1717 01:23:47,500 --> 01:23:48,750 their comfort is 1718 01:23:48,750 --> 01:23:50,000 to have, you 1719 01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:50,958 know, the ability 1720 01:23:50,958 --> 01:23:53,291 to have one man, 1721 01:23:53,291 --> 01:23:54,000 one woman for a 1722 01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:54,791 couple, to have 1723 01:23:55,500 --> 01:23:56,750 the traditional 1724 01:23:56,750 --> 01:23:57,875 life, religious, 1725 01:23:58,208 --> 01:23:58,583 doing things 1726 01:23:58,583 --> 01:23:59,583 well. And maybe 1727 01:23:59,583 --> 01:24:01,875 all these changes 1728 01:24:01,875 --> 01:24:02,708 are actually 1729 01:24:03,125 --> 01:24:03,833 creating a 1730 01:24:03,833 --> 01:24:04,375 feeling of 1731 01:24:04,375 --> 01:24:05,416 insecurity and 1732 01:24:05,416 --> 01:24:06,208 threatening for 1733 01:24:06,208 --> 01:24:07,208 them. And that's 1734 01:24:07,208 --> 01:24:07,500 why they 1735 01:24:07,500 --> 01:24:08,250 are so much 1736 01:24:08,500 --> 01:24:09,375 against all this 1737 01:24:09,375 --> 01:24:10,125 change. I do 1738 01:24:10,125 --> 01:24:10,625 think religion 1739 01:24:10,625 --> 01:24:11,375 plays a large 1740 01:24:11,375 --> 01:24:13,458 part of this. And 1741 01:24:13,458 --> 01:24:14,416 these things 1742 01:24:14,500 --> 01:24:15,000 interact 1743 01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:15,791 intertwined. So 1744 01:24:15,791 --> 01:24:16,500 this is abortion 1745 01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:16,958 is a great 1746 01:24:16,958 --> 01:24:19,291 example of the 1747 01:24:19,291 --> 01:24:19,791 way I think this 1748 01:24:19,791 --> 01:24:20,166 is playing 1749 01:24:20,166 --> 01:24:20,916 out in America. 1750 01:24:21,541 --> 01:24:22,250 Donald Trump used 1751 01:24:22,250 --> 01:24:23,166 to be a Democrat, 1752 01:24:23,166 --> 01:24:23,500 he used to be a 1753 01:24:23,500 --> 01:24:23,875 registered 1754 01:24:23,875 --> 01:24:25,125 Democrat. He 1755 01:24:25,125 --> 01:24:26,000 became a 1756 01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:26,416 Republican 1757 01:24:26,416 --> 01:24:27,416 basically because 1758 01:24:27,416 --> 01:24:28,333 he saw that as 1759 01:24:28,333 --> 01:24:29,166 the path to 1760 01:24:29,166 --> 01:24:30,083 power. I don't 1761 01:24:30,083 --> 01:24:30,500 know what his 1762 01:24:30,500 --> 01:24:31,000 true views 1763 01:24:31,208 --> 01:24:32,416 on abortion are, 1764 01:24:32,416 --> 01:24:32,750 but he's 1765 01:24:32,750 --> 01:24:33,416 certainly saying 1766 01:24:33,416 --> 01:24:34,000 the things he 1767 01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:34,958 thinks that the 1768 01:24:34,958 --> 01:24:35,708 Republican Party 1769 01:24:35,708 --> 01:24:36,250 establishment 1770 01:24:36,250 --> 01:24:37,458 wants to hear 1771 01:24:37,458 --> 01:24:38,375 with respect to 1772 01:24:38,375 --> 01:24:38,875 I'm going to 1773 01:24:38,875 --> 01:24:39,708 appoint justices 1774 01:24:39,708 --> 01:24:40,125 to the 1775 01:24:40,125 --> 01:24:40,666 Supreme Court 1776 01:24:40,875 --> 01:24:42,000 to overturn Roe 1777 01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:43,125 v. Wade and the 1778 01:24:43,125 --> 01:24:43,708 right to an 1779 01:24:43,708 --> 01:24:44,833 abortion. And 1780 01:24:44,833 --> 01:24:45,500 again, a lot of 1781 01:24:45,500 --> 01:24:46,291 it has to do with 1782 01:24:46,291 --> 01:24:46,833 religion. And 1783 01:24:46,833 --> 01:24:47,541 it's somewhat 1784 01:24:47,541 --> 01:24:48,416 amazing because 1785 01:24:48,416 --> 01:24:49,458 Donald Trump, I 1786 01:24:49,458 --> 01:24:49,916 don't think is 1787 01:24:49,916 --> 01:24:50,666 religious. I 1788 01:24:50,666 --> 01:24:51,208 don't get the 1789 01:24:51,208 --> 01:24:52,708 sense that he is 1790 01:24:52,708 --> 01:24:53,083 particularly 1791 01:24:53,083 --> 01:24:54,000 religious at all. 1792 01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:55,125 And you get the 1793 01:24:55,125 --> 01:24:56,333 kind of far right 1794 01:24:56,333 --> 01:24:56,666 religious 1795 01:24:57,458 --> 01:24:58,333 individuals who 1796 01:24:58,333 --> 01:24:58,958 are supporting 1797 01:24:58,958 --> 01:25:00,166 him. Why a lot of 1798 01:25:00,166 --> 01:25:01,375 it has to do with 1799 01:25:01,375 --> 01:25:03,208 abortion and 1800 01:25:03,208 --> 01:25:03,750 getting religion 1801 01:25:03,833 --> 01:25:04,666 back into 1802 01:25:04,666 --> 01:25:05,916 society. I think 1803 01:25:05,916 --> 01:25:06,458 that's played a 1804 01:25:06,458 --> 01:25:07,000 big part. And 1805 01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:07,500 again, it shows 1806 01:25:07,500 --> 01:25:08,250 how Trump has 1807 01:25:08,250 --> 01:25:08,708 told people 1808 01:25:08,708 --> 01:25:09,625 what they want to 1809 01:25:09,625 --> 01:25:10,750 hear to try to 1810 01:25:10,750 --> 01:25:12,041 get power. I 1811 01:25:12,041 --> 01:25:12,875 really didn't 1812 01:25:12,875 --> 01:25:13,708 know that part of 1813 01:25:13,708 --> 01:25:14,125 the story. And 1814 01:25:14,125 --> 01:25:14,583 if that's true, 1815 01:25:14,583 --> 01:25:15,375 it's a big thing. 1816 01:25:15,708 --> 01:25:16,083 I mean, I'm not 1817 01:25:16,083 --> 01:25:16,666 so far from here. 1818 01:25:16,666 --> 01:25:17,750 So I let whoever 1819 01:25:17,750 --> 01:25:18,458 wants to just 1820 01:25:18,458 --> 01:25:19,250 check online. I 1821 01:25:19,250 --> 01:25:19,708 mentioned there 1822 01:25:19,708 --> 01:25:20,250 is plenty of 1823 01:25:20,250 --> 01:25:21,500 sort. Yeah, 1824 01:25:21,500 --> 01:25:21,750 again, I don't 1825 01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:22,333 know what his 1826 01:25:22,333 --> 01:25:23,083 actual personal 1827 01:25:23,208 --> 01:25:24,000 views on abortion 1828 01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:24,416 are, but I do 1829 01:25:24,416 --> 01:25:25,125 know that he had 1830 01:25:25,125 --> 01:25:27,166 been a Democrat a 1831 01:25:27,166 --> 01:25:27,916 couple of decades 1832 01:25:27,916 --> 01:25:29,000 ago and was 1833 01:25:29,291 --> 01:25:29,958 kind of in with 1834 01:25:29,958 --> 01:25:30,750 the New York City 1835 01:25:30,750 --> 01:25:31,250 Democratic 1836 01:25:31,250 --> 01:25:31,833 establishment 1837 01:25:31,833 --> 01:25:32,458 when he was a 1838 01:25:32,458 --> 01:25:32,791 businessman. 1839 01:25:33,791 --> 01:25:34,000 And he 1840 01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:34,583 saw a path 1841 01:25:34,583 --> 01:25:35,500 through the 1842 01:25:35,500 --> 01:25:36,125 Republican Party 1843 01:25:36,125 --> 01:25:36,791 and it worked. 1844 01:25:37,083 --> 01:25:37,625 Yeah, that would 1845 01:25:37,625 --> 01:25:38,375 be indeed like 1846 01:25:38,375 --> 01:25:38,916 you just 1847 01:25:38,916 --> 01:25:39,541 said, confirming 1848 01:25:39,541 --> 01:25:40,208 the idea that 1849 01:25:40,208 --> 01:25:40,833 maybe then it's 1850 01:25:40,833 --> 01:25:41,458 more about what 1851 01:25:41,458 --> 01:25:42,041 people want to 1852 01:25:42,041 --> 01:25:42,500 hear and 1853 01:25:42,500 --> 01:25:43,083 not what the 1854 01:25:43,083 --> 01:25:45,125 real. And you've 1855 01:25:45,125 --> 01:25:45,833 mentioned Roe v. 1856 01:25:46,083 --> 01:25:46,541 Wade and that 1857 01:25:46,541 --> 01:25:47,500 reminds me that 1858 01:25:47,500 --> 01:25:48,291 the book that 1859 01:25:48,291 --> 01:25:48,666 you're publishing 1860 01:25:48,708 --> 01:25:49,333 is actually about 1861 01:25:49,333 --> 01:25:49,750 the Supreme 1862 01:25:49,750 --> 01:25:51,500 Court. So why do 1863 01:25:51,500 --> 01:25:51,916 you think the 1864 01:25:51,916 --> 01:25:52,500 Supreme Court has 1865 01:25:52,500 --> 01:25:53,208 a role in 1866 01:25:53,208 --> 01:25:53,958 protecting 1867 01:25:53,958 --> 01:25:54,625 what you write? 1868 01:25:55,416 --> 01:25:56,041 Well, so when 1869 01:25:56,041 --> 01:25:57,041 people talk about 1870 01:25:57,041 --> 01:25:57,875 what happened on 1871 01:25:57,875 --> 01:25:59,083 January 6, 2021, 1872 01:25:59,375 --> 01:25:59,750 the insurrection 1873 01:25:59,750 --> 01:26:00,750 at the US Capitol 1874 01:26:00,750 --> 01:26:01,833 or just the 1875 01:26:01,833 --> 01:26:03,375 voting you have 1876 01:26:03,375 --> 01:26:05,041 in America, often 1877 01:26:05,041 --> 01:26:06,208 it's if you look 1878 01:26:06,208 --> 01:26:06,958 at Congress and 1879 01:26:06,958 --> 01:26:07,541 you see that 1880 01:26:07,541 --> 01:26:08,750 support of 1881 01:26:08,750 --> 01:26:09,625 Congress is 1882 01:26:09,625 --> 01:26:10,666 pretty low. The 1883 01:26:10,666 --> 01:26:11,500 presidency, I 1884 01:26:11,500 --> 01:26:11,833 mean, whether 1885 01:26:11,833 --> 01:26:12,041 it's 1886 01:26:12,041 --> 01:26:12,708 Trump or it's 1887 01:26:12,708 --> 01:26:13,166 been Biden, 1888 01:26:13,833 --> 01:26:14,875 support of the 1889 01:26:14,875 --> 01:26:15,250 incumbent 1890 01:26:15,250 --> 01:26:15,791 president has 1891 01:26:15,791 --> 01:26:16,750 been low. But 1892 01:26:16,750 --> 01:26:17,416 people, I think 1893 01:26:17,416 --> 01:26:17,666 generally, 1894 01:26:17,791 --> 01:26:18,708 at least used to 1895 01:26:18,708 --> 01:26:19,500 think of the 1896 01:26:19,500 --> 01:26:20,500 Supreme Court as 1897 01:26:20,500 --> 01:26:21,416 a protector of 1898 01:26:21,416 --> 01:26:22,541 rights. And what 1899 01:26:22,541 --> 01:26:23,583 this book aims to 1900 01:26:23,583 --> 01:26:24,208 do is explain 1901 01:26:24,208 --> 01:26:24,625 why, 1902 01:26:24,625 --> 01:26:25,208 unfortunately, 1903 01:26:25,791 --> 01:26:26,375 the Supreme Court 1904 01:26:26,375 --> 01:26:26,875 has been pretty 1905 01:26:26,875 --> 01:26:28,166 bad on voting 1906 01:26:28,166 --> 01:26:28,541 rights as 1907 01:26:28,541 --> 01:26:29,125 well. So, 1908 01:26:29,333 --> 01:26:29,875 you know, the 1909 01:26:29,875 --> 01:26:30,333 reason it's 1910 01:26:30,333 --> 01:26:31,166 important is that 1911 01:26:31,166 --> 01:26:32,125 the court is 1912 01:26:32,125 --> 01:26:33,083 supposed to be 1913 01:26:33,083 --> 01:26:34,291 the protector of 1914 01:26:34,291 --> 01:26:34,708 individual 1915 01:26:34,875 --> 01:26:35,958 rights against 1916 01:26:35,958 --> 01:26:37,458 majoritarianism 1917 01:26:37,458 --> 01:26:38,500 suppression, 1918 01:26:38,833 --> 01:26:39,125 right, against 1919 01:26:39,125 --> 01:26:39,708 the majority 1920 01:26:39,708 --> 01:26:41,416 trying to change 1921 01:26:41,416 --> 01:26:41,750 the voting 1922 01:26:41,750 --> 01:26:42,500 rules or suppress 1923 01:26:42,500 --> 01:26:43,291 voting rights in 1924 01:26:43,291 --> 01:26:44,000 an effort to keep 1925 01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:44,958 themselves in 1926 01:26:44,958 --> 01:26:46,125 power, which is a 1927 01:26:46,125 --> 01:26:46,458 lot of what 1928 01:26:46,500 --> 01:26:47,750 happens. You have 1929 01:26:47,750 --> 01:26:48,708 these rules that 1930 01:26:48,708 --> 01:26:49,750 politicians enact 1931 01:26:49,750 --> 01:26:50,500 with the sole 1932 01:26:50,500 --> 01:26:50,833 goal, 1933 01:26:50,833 --> 01:26:51,333 essentially, 1934 01:26:51,333 --> 01:26:51,750 of making 1935 01:26:51,750 --> 01:26:52,583 it harder for the 1936 01:26:52,583 --> 01:26:53,416 other side to win 1937 01:26:53,416 --> 01:26:54,500 and easier for 1938 01:26:54,500 --> 01:26:55,041 them to win 1939 01:26:55,041 --> 01:26:56,000 reelection. The 1940 01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:56,208 court 1941 01:26:56,208 --> 01:26:56,833 used to be a 1942 01:26:56,833 --> 01:26:57,416 protector of the 1943 01:26:57,416 --> 01:26:58,250 individual voter. 1944 01:26:58,791 --> 01:27:00,000 In the 1960s, 1945 01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:00,791 there was a 1946 01:27:00,791 --> 01:27:02,000 handful of cases 1947 01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:02,458 in which 1948 01:27:02,458 --> 01:27:02,916 the court 1949 01:27:03,125 --> 01:27:04,250 elevated the 1950 01:27:04,250 --> 01:27:04,666 constitutional 1951 01:27:04,666 --> 01:27:05,708 right to vote. 1952 01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:06,916 But really, over 1953 01:27:06,916 --> 01:27:07,666 the past 50 1954 01:27:07,666 --> 01:27:08,083 years, 1955 01:27:08,083 --> 01:27:08,916 we've seen the 1956 01:27:08,916 --> 01:27:09,833 court backslide 1957 01:27:09,833 --> 01:27:10,875 on its protection 1958 01:27:10,875 --> 01:27:12,041 of voting rights. 1959 01:27:12,041 --> 01:27:12,791 And so the book 1960 01:27:12,791 --> 01:27:13,708 tells that story 1961 01:27:13,708 --> 01:27:14,541 for a general 1962 01:27:14,666 --> 01:27:15,500 audience. So it's 1963 01:27:15,500 --> 01:27:16,875 written with the 1964 01:27:16,875 --> 01:27:17,958 everyday voter in 1965 01:27:17,958 --> 01:27:19,250 mind. It's 1966 01:27:19,250 --> 01:27:19,875 essentially each 1967 01:27:19,875 --> 01:27:20,875 chapter is a case 1968 01:27:20,875 --> 01:27:21,875 study about a 1969 01:27:21,875 --> 01:27:22,666 significant case 1970 01:27:22,666 --> 01:27:23,458 in which the 1971 01:27:23,458 --> 01:27:24,833 court harmed the 1972 01:27:24,833 --> 01:27:25,375 right to vote. 1973 01:27:25,833 --> 01:27:26,125 Some of the 1974 01:27:26,125 --> 01:27:26,625 cases people 1975 01:27:26,625 --> 01:27:27,166 have heard of 1976 01:27:27,166 --> 01:27:27,916 probably like 1977 01:27:27,916 --> 01:27:28,833 Bush v. Gore, 1978 01:27:29,208 --> 01:27:29,750 again, which 1979 01:27:29,750 --> 01:27:30,458 ended the 2000 1980 01:27:30,458 --> 01:27:31,083 presidential 1981 01:27:31,083 --> 01:27:31,708 election. 1982 01:27:31,708 --> 01:27:32,166 You need to reset 1983 01:27:32,166 --> 01:27:32,791 because I don't 1984 01:27:32,791 --> 01:27:33,458 think it's for 1985 01:27:33,458 --> 01:27:33,916 European 1986 01:27:33,916 --> 01:27:34,583 this and that. 1987 01:27:34,875 --> 01:27:35,500 Yeah, but I mean, 1988 01:27:35,500 --> 01:27:36,125 you may have 1989 01:27:36,125 --> 01:27:36,750 heard of at least 1990 01:27:36,750 --> 01:27:38,625 the controversy 1991 01:27:38,625 --> 01:27:39,583 that involved the 1992 01:27:39,583 --> 01:27:40,250 2000 presidential 1993 01:27:40,541 --> 01:27:41,625 election in Bush 1994 01:27:41,625 --> 01:27:42,166 v. Gore, another 1995 01:27:42,166 --> 01:27:42,666 case that most 1996 01:27:42,666 --> 01:27:43,208 Americans would 1997 01:27:43,208 --> 01:27:43,875 know it's 1998 01:27:43,875 --> 01:27:44,250 Citizens United, 1999 01:27:44,791 --> 01:27:45,291 which is about 2000 01:27:45,291 --> 01:27:45,875 corporations 2001 01:27:45,875 --> 01:27:47,291 spending money on 2002 01:27:47,291 --> 01:27:48,333 campaigns. So I 2003 01:27:48,333 --> 01:27:49,000 tell the stories 2004 01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:49,833 of those cases, 2005 01:27:50,708 --> 01:27:51,208 which again, 2006 01:27:51,208 --> 01:27:51,875 people who talk 2007 01:27:51,875 --> 01:27:52,500 about democracy 2008 01:27:52,500 --> 01:27:53,500 in America, at 2009 01:27:53,500 --> 01:27:54,250 least have heard 2010 01:27:54,250 --> 01:27:55,083 those names, 2011 01:27:55,083 --> 01:27:55,541 heard the names 2012 01:27:55,541 --> 01:27:56,291 of those cases, 2013 01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:57,500 but also talk 2014 01:27:57,500 --> 01:27:58,041 about some other 2015 01:27:58,041 --> 01:27:59,541 cases from 40 and 2016 01:27:59,541 --> 01:28:00,291 50 years ago 2017 01:28:00,500 --> 01:28:01,166 that laid the 2018 01:28:01,166 --> 01:28:02,333 foundation for 2019 01:28:02,333 --> 01:28:03,041 the court's 2020 01:28:03,041 --> 01:28:03,708 current under 2021 01:28:03,708 --> 01:28:04,666 protection of the 2022 01:28:04,666 --> 01:28:05,125 right to vote. 2023 01:28:05,666 --> 01:28:06,208 So you're saying 2024 01:28:06,208 --> 01:28:08,000 that before, if I 2025 01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:08,666 understand well, 2026 01:28:08,666 --> 01:28:09,083 the Supreme Court 2027 01:28:09,083 --> 01:28:09,875 was better 2028 01:28:09,875 --> 01:28:10,125 playing 2029 01:28:10,125 --> 01:28:10,875 the role of 2030 01:28:10,875 --> 01:28:11,416 protecting voting 2031 01:28:11,416 --> 01:28:12,000 rights and it's 2032 01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:12,666 got a bit worse 2033 01:28:12,666 --> 01:28:13,000 in the 2034 01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:14,375 latest years. 2035 01:28:14,375 --> 01:28:14,833 That's right. 2036 01:28:14,833 --> 01:28:15,416 Now, before the 2037 01:28:15,416 --> 01:28:16,416 1960s, the court 2038 01:28:16,416 --> 01:28:16,958 was pretty bad. 2039 01:28:17,375 --> 01:28:18,083 So it was really 2040 01:28:18,083 --> 01:28:19,208 the 1960s was 2041 01:28:19,208 --> 01:28:20,375 the high mark of 2042 01:28:20,375 --> 01:28:20,666 the court 2043 01:28:20,666 --> 01:28:21,500 protecting voting 2044 01:28:21,500 --> 01:28:22,041 rights. Previous 2045 01:28:22,041 --> 01:28:23,083 to that, there 2046 01:28:23,083 --> 01:28:23,833 were a bunch of 2047 01:28:23,833 --> 01:28:24,500 cases in 2048 01:28:24,500 --> 01:28:25,083 which the court 2049 01:28:25,083 --> 01:28:26,291 did not protect 2050 01:28:26,291 --> 01:28:27,000 the voting 2051 01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:28,166 rights. A good 2052 01:28:28,166 --> 01:28:28,958 example is a case 2053 01:28:28,958 --> 01:28:29,958 called Miner v. 2054 01:28:30,208 --> 01:28:30,708 Happerstadt, 2055 01:28:30,750 --> 01:28:31,416 which was about 2056 01:28:31,416 --> 01:28:32,291 women's suffrage 2057 01:28:32,291 --> 01:28:34,000 before the 19th 2058 01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:34,333 Amendment to the 2059 01:28:34,333 --> 01:28:34,791 U.S. 2060 01:28:34,791 --> 01:28:35,416 Constitution that 2061 01:28:35,416 --> 01:28:36,041 enfranchised 2062 01:28:36,041 --> 01:28:37,416 women. This case 2063 01:28:37,416 --> 01:28:39,333 held that the 2064 01:28:39,333 --> 01:28:40,000 Constitution did 2065 01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:40,625 not protect the 2066 01:28:40,625 --> 01:28:41,458 rights of women 2067 01:28:41,750 --> 01:28:42,666 to vote. So the 2068 01:28:42,666 --> 01:28:43,125 court was, I 2069 01:28:43,125 --> 01:28:43,958 think, pretty bad 2070 01:28:43,958 --> 01:28:44,708 until about the 2071 01:28:44,708 --> 01:28:46,000 1960s. And then 2072 01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:47,166 we had the court 2073 01:28:47,166 --> 01:28:47,750 do what I think 2074 01:28:47,750 --> 01:28:48,291 it should be 2075 01:28:48,291 --> 01:28:49,083 doing all along, 2076 01:28:49,083 --> 01:28:50,000 which is actually 2077 01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:51,375 protect voters in 2078 01:28:51,375 --> 01:28:52,416 a series of 2079 01:28:52,708 --> 01:28:53,875 cases. And then 2080 01:28:53,875 --> 01:28:54,458 we started the 2081 01:28:54,458 --> 01:28:54,958 backsliding 2082 01:28:54,958 --> 01:28:55,916 again. But what's 2083 01:28:55,916 --> 01:28:56,708 interesting about 2084 01:28:56,708 --> 01:28:57,916 the past 40 or 50 2085 01:28:58,000 --> 01:28:59,166 years is that the 2086 01:28:59,166 --> 01:28:59,583 court has not 2087 01:28:59,583 --> 01:29:00,750 been explicit in 2088 01:29:00,750 --> 01:29:01,375 what it's doing. 2089 01:29:01,708 --> 01:29:02,291 It chips a little 2090 01:29:02,291 --> 01:29:02,916 way here, 2091 01:29:03,208 --> 01:29:03,708 a little way 2092 01:29:03,708 --> 01:29:04,666 there. And now 2093 01:29:04,666 --> 01:29:05,666 you look back 50 2094 01:29:05,666 --> 01:29:06,458 years later and 2095 01:29:06,458 --> 01:29:07,916 you say, oh, now 2096 01:29:07,916 --> 01:29:09,166 we can see this 2097 01:29:09,166 --> 01:29:09,541 is what's 2098 01:29:09,541 --> 01:29:10,541 happened. But the 2099 01:29:10,541 --> 01:29:11,625 court was at this 2100 01:29:11,625 --> 01:29:12,250 high water mark 2101 01:29:12,250 --> 01:29:13,333 in the 1960s and 2102 01:29:13,333 --> 01:29:14,625 then slowly and 2103 01:29:14,625 --> 01:29:15,541 incrementally 2104 01:29:15,750 --> 01:29:16,416 started to get 2105 01:29:16,416 --> 01:29:17,583 worse. And now we 2106 01:29:17,583 --> 01:29:18,458 see the problems 2107 01:29:18,458 --> 01:29:18,791 that it's 2108 01:29:18,791 --> 01:29:19,083 created. 2109 01:29:19,583 --> 01:29:20,291 Okay. So we can 2110 01:29:20,291 --> 01:29:21,958 see that when we 2111 01:29:21,958 --> 01:29:22,375 see the bigger 2112 01:29:22,375 --> 01:29:23,125 picture. But do 2113 01:29:23,125 --> 01:29:23,791 you think at that 2114 01:29:23,791 --> 01:29:24,291 time it was 2115 01:29:24,458 --> 01:29:25,000 intentional from 2116 01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:25,291 them or 2117 01:29:25,291 --> 01:29:25,875 themselves they 2118 01:29:25,875 --> 01:29:26,125 were not 2119 01:29:26,125 --> 01:29:27,416 realizing what's 2120 01:29:27,416 --> 01:29:27,791 happening? 2121 01:29:28,333 --> 01:29:28,875 So some of the 2122 01:29:28,875 --> 01:29:29,541 cases I think 2123 01:29:29,541 --> 01:29:30,125 were not 2124 01:29:30,125 --> 01:29:30,958 intentional. I 2125 01:29:30,958 --> 01:29:31,583 mean, so one of 2126 01:29:31,583 --> 01:29:32,208 the cases I 2127 01:29:32,208 --> 01:29:33,208 talked about was 2128 01:29:33,291 --> 01:29:34,000 written by 2129 01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:35,166 Justice John Paul 2130 01:29:35,166 --> 01:29:36,000 Stevens, who is 2131 01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:36,791 known as a 2132 01:29:36,791 --> 01:29:37,500 liberal justice 2133 01:29:37,500 --> 01:29:38,958 who in later 2134 01:29:38,958 --> 01:29:39,708 years would, 2135 01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:41,291 I think, lament 2136 01:29:41,291 --> 01:29:41,916 some of the 2137 01:29:41,916 --> 01:29:42,750 decisions perhaps 2138 01:29:42,750 --> 01:29:45,083 as not protecting 2139 01:29:45,083 --> 01:29:45,791 voting rights 2140 01:29:45,791 --> 01:29:47,500 enough. And so I 2141 01:29:47,500 --> 01:29:48,000 think when he 2142 01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:49,041 wrote that case, 2143 01:29:49,708 --> 01:29:50,416 in the case I'm 2144 01:29:50,416 --> 01:29:51,000 thinking of in 2145 01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:51,916 particular, is 2146 01:29:51,916 --> 01:29:52,541 the first case I 2147 01:29:52,541 --> 01:29:53,166 discussed in the 2148 01:29:53,166 --> 01:29:53,791 book, Anderson 2149 01:29:53,791 --> 01:29:54,500 versus St. 2150 01:29:54,500 --> 01:29:55,333 LaBrize, which 2151 01:29:55,333 --> 01:29:57,041 revolves around a 2152 01:29:57,041 --> 01:29:57,708 third party 2153 01:29:57,708 --> 01:29:58,166 running for 2154 01:29:58,166 --> 01:29:58,666 president in 2155 01:29:58,666 --> 01:29:59,500 1980. Again, 2156 01:29:59,500 --> 01:30:00,000 talking about 2157 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:01,083 third parties 2158 01:30:01,083 --> 01:30:02,500 earlier. And in 2159 01:30:02,500 --> 01:30:02,666 that 2160 01:30:02,666 --> 01:30:03,541 case, Justice 2161 01:30:03,583 --> 01:30:04,958 Stevens wrote a 2162 01:30:04,958 --> 01:30:05,791 decision which 2163 01:30:05,791 --> 01:30:07,000 later justices 2164 01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:08,333 then used, and I 2165 01:30:08,333 --> 01:30:08,916 think maybe 2166 01:30:08,916 --> 01:30:10,000 distorted 2167 01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:10,833 somewhat, 2168 01:30:11,541 --> 01:30:12,333 to even further 2169 01:30:12,333 --> 01:30:13,083 pull back on 2170 01:30:13,083 --> 01:30:13,750 voting rights. So 2171 01:30:13,750 --> 01:30:14,458 I don't think the 2172 01:30:14,458 --> 01:30:14,916 court was 2173 01:30:14,916 --> 01:30:15,833 initially trying 2174 01:30:16,458 --> 01:30:17,333 to under protect 2175 01:30:17,333 --> 01:30:18,375 the right to vote 2176 01:30:18,375 --> 01:30:18,958 under the 2177 01:30:18,958 --> 01:30:20,000 Constitution. But 2178 01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:21,125 the cases 2179 01:30:21,125 --> 01:30:22,833 that it set out 2180 01:30:22,875 --> 01:30:23,833 earlier on in the 2181 01:30:23,833 --> 01:30:24,666 1970s and the 2182 01:30:24,666 --> 01:30:25,791 1980s have now 2183 01:30:25,791 --> 01:30:27,000 been mangled to a 2184 01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:28,000 point where today 2185 01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:28,958 the protection 2186 01:30:29,125 --> 01:30:29,958 is less than it 2187 01:30:29,958 --> 01:30:31,250 should be. And so 2188 01:30:31,250 --> 01:30:32,291 what are your 2189 01:30:32,291 --> 01:30:33,250 suggestions to 2190 01:30:33,250 --> 01:30:35,125 stop that and to 2191 01:30:35,125 --> 01:30:36,291 get back to a 2192 01:30:36,416 --> 01:30:37,708 more healthy 2193 01:30:37,708 --> 01:30:38,666 Supreme Court, 2194 01:30:38,666 --> 01:30:39,583 let's say? Well, 2195 01:30:39,583 --> 01:30:40,208 in terms of 2196 01:30:40,208 --> 01:30:41,166 reforming the 2197 01:30:41,166 --> 01:30:41,458 Supreme 2198 01:30:41,458 --> 01:30:42,000 Court itself, 2199 01:30:42,166 --> 01:30:42,833 I do think there 2200 01:30:42,833 --> 01:30:43,166 are several 2201 01:30:43,166 --> 01:30:44,458 things we can do. 2202 01:30:44,458 --> 01:30:44,750 And I talked 2203 01:30:44,750 --> 01:30:45,708 about these at 2204 01:30:45,708 --> 01:30:46,208 the end of 2205 01:30:46,208 --> 01:30:46,541 the book. 2206 01:30:47,250 --> 01:30:47,541 There's been a 2207 01:30:47,541 --> 01:30:48,125 lot of people, 2208 01:30:48,125 --> 01:30:48,333 particularly 2209 01:30:48,333 --> 01:30:49,333 Democrats, who 2210 01:30:49,333 --> 01:30:49,958 have argued for 2211 01:30:49,958 --> 01:30:50,250 packing 2212 01:30:50,250 --> 01:30:50,791 the court, 2213 01:30:50,791 --> 01:30:51,500 that is expanding 2214 01:30:51,500 --> 01:30:52,375 the size of the 2215 01:30:52,375 --> 01:30:52,916 Supreme Court 2216 01:30:52,916 --> 01:30:54,041 from nine to 2217 01:30:54,041 --> 01:30:55,541 maybe 15. I think 2218 01:30:55,541 --> 01:30:55,833 that's a 2219 01:30:55,833 --> 01:30:56,416 bad idea, 2220 01:30:56,500 --> 01:30:57,166 actually. Now 2221 01:30:57,166 --> 01:30:58,166 Congress could do 2222 01:30:58,166 --> 01:30:58,500 it. There's 2223 01:30:58,500 --> 01:30:59,208 nothing in the US 2224 01:30:59,208 --> 01:31:00,291 Constitution that 2225 01:31:00,291 --> 01:31:00,708 sets out 2226 01:31:00,708 --> 01:31:01,125 the number 2227 01:31:01,125 --> 01:31:02,583 of justices. For 2228 01:31:02,583 --> 01:31:03,458 a long time early 2229 01:31:03,458 --> 01:31:04,500 in America's 2230 01:31:04,500 --> 01:31:04,958 history, there 2231 01:31:04,958 --> 01:31:05,750 were six justices 2232 01:31:05,750 --> 01:31:06,958 on the US Supreme 2233 01:31:06,958 --> 01:31:07,541 Court. It's been 2234 01:31:07,541 --> 01:31:08,416 nine since the 2235 01:31:08,416 --> 01:31:10,083 mid 1800s. But 2236 01:31:10,083 --> 01:31:10,541 Congress could 2237 01:31:10,541 --> 01:31:11,541 pass a law to 2238 01:31:11,541 --> 01:31:12,500 change that. So 2239 01:31:12,500 --> 01:31:13,458 although the 2240 01:31:13,458 --> 01:31:14,000 Democrats, if 2241 01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:14,416 they controlled 2242 01:31:14,416 --> 01:31:15,166 Congress and the 2243 01:31:15,166 --> 01:31:15,958 presidency, could 2244 01:31:15,958 --> 01:31:16,416 do that, 2245 01:31:16,416 --> 01:31:16,708 I don't think 2246 01:31:16,708 --> 01:31:17,458 it's a good idea. 2247 01:31:17,958 --> 01:31:18,666 And the reason is 2248 01:31:18,666 --> 01:31:19,416 what happens when 2249 01:31:19,416 --> 01:31:19,750 Republicans 2250 01:31:19,750 --> 01:31:20,375 take over, 2251 01:31:20,375 --> 01:31:21,000 then they would 2252 01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:22,416 pass a new law to 2253 01:31:22,416 --> 01:31:22,791 increase the 2254 01:31:22,791 --> 01:31:23,625 courts to 21. And 2255 01:31:23,625 --> 01:31:24,125 then Democrats 2256 01:31:24,125 --> 01:31:25,083 come back and 2257 01:31:25,083 --> 01:31:25,583 say, okay, we got 2258 01:31:25,583 --> 01:31:26,375 to go up to 27 2259 01:31:26,375 --> 01:31:26,916 and it just goes 2260 01:31:26,916 --> 01:31:27,541 back and forth. 2261 01:31:28,500 --> 01:31:28,958 So I think we 2262 01:31:28,958 --> 01:31:29,125 need to 2263 01:31:29,125 --> 01:31:29,708 look at other 2264 01:31:29,750 --> 01:31:30,375 structural 2265 01:31:30,375 --> 01:31:31,708 reforms to the 2266 01:31:31,708 --> 01:31:33,166 court. One idea 2267 01:31:33,166 --> 01:31:34,000 is term limits. 2268 01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:34,541 Right now, 2269 01:31:34,541 --> 01:31:34,958 Supreme Court 2270 01:31:34,958 --> 01:31:35,333 justices 2271 01:31:35,875 --> 01:31:37,166 serve for life. I 2272 01:31:37,166 --> 01:31:37,541 think if we 2273 01:31:37,541 --> 01:31:39,041 adopted 18 year 2274 01:31:39,041 --> 01:31:40,458 term limits, that 2275 01:31:40,458 --> 01:31:41,000 would have a 2276 01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:41,875 natural rotation 2277 01:31:41,875 --> 01:31:42,416 where every 2278 01:31:42,416 --> 01:31:43,333 presidential term 2279 01:31:43,333 --> 01:31:44,541 gets two 2280 01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:45,166 presidential 2281 01:31:45,166 --> 01:31:46,625 nominations to 2282 01:31:46,625 --> 01:31:47,000 the court, 2283 01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:47,416 basically one 2284 01:31:47,416 --> 01:31:47,875 every two 2285 01:31:47,875 --> 01:31:48,666 years. I think 2286 01:31:48,666 --> 01:31:49,000 that would be a 2287 01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:49,541 lot healthier 2288 01:31:49,541 --> 01:31:50,166 than the 2289 01:31:50,166 --> 01:31:50,791 situation where 2290 01:31:50,791 --> 01:31:51,333 you have justices 2291 01:31:51,333 --> 01:31:52,000 serving for 2292 01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:53,041 20, 30 years. 2293 01:31:53,666 --> 01:31:54,583 Another reform is 2294 01:31:54,583 --> 01:31:55,416 I think perhaps 2295 01:31:55,416 --> 01:31:56,541 over time, we 2296 01:31:56,541 --> 01:31:57,333 could increase 2297 01:31:57,333 --> 01:31:57,958 the size of 2298 01:31:57,958 --> 01:31:58,458 the court, 2299 01:31:58,458 --> 01:31:59,041 but then have 2300 01:31:59,041 --> 01:31:59,500 them sit in 2301 01:31:59,500 --> 01:32:01,083 panels. So the US 2302 01:32:01,083 --> 01:32:01,541 Courts of 2303 01:32:01,541 --> 01:32:02,666 Appeals, the kind 2304 01:32:02,666 --> 01:32:03,375 of mid-level 2305 01:32:03,375 --> 01:32:04,208 review court 2306 01:32:04,250 --> 01:32:04,916 before a case 2307 01:32:04,916 --> 01:32:05,625 might make it to 2308 01:32:05,625 --> 01:32:06,125 the US Supreme 2309 01:32:06,125 --> 01:32:07,208 Court does this. 2310 01:32:07,666 --> 01:32:08,208 So they have, 2311 01:32:08,208 --> 01:32:09,291 there's 11 2312 01:32:09,291 --> 01:32:10,916 numbered 2313 01:32:11,291 --> 01:32:12,125 circuit courts of 2314 01:32:12,125 --> 01:32:12,583 appeals, one 2315 01:32:12,583 --> 01:32:13,041 through 11, and 2316 01:32:13,041 --> 01:32:13,791 also the DC 2317 01:32:13,791 --> 01:32:14,500 circuit, which 2318 01:32:14,500 --> 01:32:14,791 hears 2319 01:32:14,791 --> 01:32:15,333 cases out of 2320 01:32:15,333 --> 01:32:16,041 Washington DC. 2321 01:32:16,958 --> 01:32:17,583 But those courts 2322 01:32:17,583 --> 01:32:17,958 are 2323 01:32:17,958 --> 01:32:18,916 multi-membered, 2324 01:32:19,125 --> 01:32:19,541 say, you know, 2325 01:32:19,541 --> 01:32:19,916 the Fifth 2326 01:32:19,916 --> 01:32:20,333 Circuit, 2327 01:32:20,333 --> 01:32:20,833 which covers 2328 01:32:20,833 --> 01:32:21,875 Texas, Louisiana, 2329 01:32:22,208 --> 01:32:22,875 and Mississippi 2330 01:32:22,875 --> 01:32:24,541 has 17 judges on 2331 01:32:24,541 --> 01:32:25,375 it, but they sit 2332 01:32:25,375 --> 01:32:26,000 in three judge 2333 01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:26,708 panels to hear 2334 01:32:26,708 --> 01:32:27,583 cases, a random 2335 01:32:27,583 --> 01:32:28,583 draw of three 2336 01:32:28,583 --> 01:32:29,291 judges. Why don't 2337 01:32:29,291 --> 01:32:29,833 we do that for 2338 01:32:29,833 --> 01:32:30,375 the US Supreme 2339 01:32:30,375 --> 01:32:31,416 Court as well? 2340 01:32:32,083 --> 01:32:32,791 Another idea 2341 01:32:32,791 --> 01:32:33,708 would be to let 2342 01:32:33,708 --> 01:32:34,208 some of those 2343 01:32:34,208 --> 01:32:34,875 Court of Appeals 2344 01:32:34,875 --> 01:32:35,958 judges sit 2345 01:32:35,958 --> 01:32:36,583 occasionally 2346 01:32:36,583 --> 01:32:37,333 on the US 2347 01:32:37,333 --> 01:32:38,000 Supreme Court. 2348 01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:38,291 It's called 2349 01:32:38,291 --> 01:32:38,916 sitting by 2350 01:32:38,916 --> 01:32:39,958 designation. I've 2351 01:32:39,958 --> 01:32:40,500 been more regular 2352 01:32:40,500 --> 01:32:41,250 rotation of 2353 01:32:41,250 --> 01:32:42,333 people who hear 2354 01:32:42,333 --> 01:32:43,541 these cases. Why 2355 01:32:43,541 --> 01:32:44,125 that I think that 2356 01:32:44,125 --> 01:32:44,625 would work is 2357 01:32:44,625 --> 01:32:45,291 because it would 2358 01:32:45,291 --> 01:32:45,916 take away the 2359 01:32:45,916 --> 01:32:46,916 focus on the 2360 01:32:46,916 --> 01:32:48,041 identity of the 2361 01:32:48,041 --> 01:32:49,291 justices and make 2362 01:32:49,291 --> 01:32:49,708 the decisions 2363 01:32:49,708 --> 01:32:50,416 more about the 2364 01:32:50,416 --> 01:32:51,708 law, not who's on 2365 01:32:51,708 --> 01:32:52,208 the court. Right 2366 01:32:52,208 --> 01:32:53,083 now, we have a 2367 01:32:53,083 --> 01:32:54,083 6-3 conservative 2368 01:32:54,083 --> 01:32:55,458 majority in any 2369 01:32:55,458 --> 01:32:56,083 high profile 2370 01:32:56,083 --> 01:32:56,916 case, whether 2371 01:32:56,916 --> 01:32:57,250 it's about 2372 01:32:57,250 --> 01:32:57,458 abortion 2373 01:32:57,750 --> 01:32:58,458 or same-sex 2374 01:32:58,458 --> 01:33:00,125 marriage or, or 2375 01:33:00,125 --> 01:33:01,083 gun rights, for 2376 01:33:01,083 --> 01:33:02,208 example, maybe 2377 01:33:02,208 --> 01:33:02,750 not same-sex 2378 01:33:02,750 --> 01:33:03,333 marriage, because 2379 01:33:03,333 --> 01:33:03,916 I think that has 2380 01:33:03,916 --> 01:33:04,708 really been 2381 01:33:04,708 --> 01:33:06,375 accepted now much 2382 01:33:06,375 --> 01:33:07,333 more in a 2383 01:33:07,333 --> 01:33:07,708 mainstream 2384 01:33:07,708 --> 01:33:08,250 American 2385 01:33:08,250 --> 01:33:09,291 society. But, 2386 01:33:09,291 --> 01:33:09,750 you know, 2387 01:33:09,750 --> 01:33:10,291 abortion rights, 2388 01:33:10,291 --> 01:33:10,958 for example, a 2389 01:33:10,958 --> 01:33:11,666 hot button issue, 2390 01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:12,625 we can pretty 2391 01:33:12,625 --> 01:33:13,250 much predict 2392 01:33:13,583 --> 01:33:14,291 how the court's 2393 01:33:14,291 --> 01:33:14,541 going to come 2394 01:33:14,541 --> 01:33:15,083 down, it's most 2395 01:33:15,083 --> 01:33:15,625 likely going to 2396 01:33:15,625 --> 01:33:16,958 be 6-3 on 2397 01:33:16,958 --> 01:33:17,500 ideological 2398 01:33:17,500 --> 01:33:18,041 lines. 2399 01:33:18,375 --> 01:33:18,791 If we had a 2400 01:33:18,791 --> 01:33:19,750 regular rotation 2401 01:33:19,750 --> 01:33:20,375 or a court 2402 01:33:20,375 --> 01:33:20,916 sitting in 2403 01:33:20,916 --> 01:33:22,708 panels, the 2404 01:33:22,708 --> 01:33:24,333 decisions would 2405 01:33:24,333 --> 01:33:24,958 be much less 2406 01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:26,125 predictable. And 2407 01:33:26,125 --> 01:33:27,416 you would have, I 2408 01:33:27,416 --> 01:33:27,958 think, a focus 2409 01:33:27,958 --> 01:33:28,583 more on the law 2410 01:33:28,583 --> 01:33:29,125 than on the 2411 01:33:29,125 --> 01:33:29,458 identity. 2412 01:33:29,708 --> 01:33:30,750 Because at the 2413 01:33:30,750 --> 01:33:31,166 end, all these 2414 01:33:31,166 --> 01:33:32,208 ideas are to just 2415 01:33:32,208 --> 01:33:33,208 depoliticize, 2416 01:33:33,208 --> 01:33:33,750 make it less 2417 01:33:33,750 --> 01:33:34,791 politicize, 2418 01:33:34,791 --> 01:33:35,125 less about 2419 01:33:35,125 --> 01:33:35,958 politics and 2420 01:33:35,958 --> 01:33:36,875 personal 2421 01:33:36,875 --> 01:33:37,958 opinions, and 2422 01:33:37,958 --> 01:33:38,416 more about 2423 01:33:38,416 --> 01:33:39,125 looking at the 2424 01:33:39,125 --> 01:33:39,666 law, the 2425 01:33:40,708 --> 01:33:41,125 constitution. 2426 01:33:41,541 --> 01:33:42,125 That's right. And 2427 01:33:42,125 --> 01:33:42,541 there's no way to 2428 01:33:42,541 --> 01:33:43,125 get politics 2429 01:33:43,125 --> 01:33:44,125 entirely out of 2430 01:33:44,125 --> 01:33:44,333 the 2431 01:33:44,333 --> 01:33:44,833 court. I don't 2432 01:33:44,833 --> 01:33:45,291 think anyone 2433 01:33:45,291 --> 01:33:46,250 suggests that you 2434 01:33:46,250 --> 01:33:46,666 could remove 2435 01:33:46,666 --> 01:33:47,708 politics. But I 2436 01:33:47,708 --> 01:33:48,041 think you're 2437 01:33:48,041 --> 01:33:49,041 right that deep 2438 01:33:49,041 --> 01:33:49,875 politicizing the 2439 01:33:49,875 --> 01:33:50,791 court would go a 2440 01:33:50,791 --> 01:33:52,000 long way. And 2441 01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:52,750 again, you know, 2442 01:33:52,750 --> 01:33:53,708 my area is 2443 01:33:53,708 --> 01:33:54,375 voting rights. 2444 01:33:54,666 --> 01:33:55,208 Most voting 2445 01:33:55,208 --> 01:33:55,791 rights decisions 2446 01:33:55,791 --> 01:33:56,541 these days are 2447 01:33:56,541 --> 01:33:58,500 6-3 or maybe 5-4, 2448 01:33:58,500 --> 01:33:59,000 we kind of know 2449 01:33:59,000 --> 01:33:59,375 how they're going 2450 01:33:59,375 --> 01:34:00,208 to come out. And 2451 01:34:00,208 --> 01:34:00,583 those are the 2452 01:34:00,583 --> 01:34:01,416 very cases where 2453 01:34:01,416 --> 01:34:02,125 the court should 2454 01:34:02,125 --> 01:34:03,250 not be political, 2455 01:34:03,250 --> 01:34:04,000 right? The 2456 01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:04,583 cases about 2457 01:34:04,583 --> 01:34:05,583 political power 2458 01:34:05,583 --> 01:34:06,041 is where the 2459 01:34:06,041 --> 01:34:06,500 court really 2460 01:34:06,500 --> 01:34:08,416 needs to be as 2461 01:34:08,416 --> 01:34:10,166 unpolitical as 2462 01:34:10,166 --> 01:34:10,666 possible, 2463 01:34:10,666 --> 01:34:11,208 apolitical as 2464 01:34:11,208 --> 01:34:13,000 possible. And yet 2465 01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:13,541 we don't see that 2466 01:34:13,541 --> 01:34:14,250 right now. 2467 01:34:14,250 --> 01:34:14,916 Increasingly from 2468 01:34:14,916 --> 01:34:15,875 what you say, I 2469 01:34:15,875 --> 01:34:16,833 understand that 2470 01:34:16,833 --> 01:34:18,208 the forces that 2471 01:34:18,208 --> 01:34:18,750 are threatening 2472 01:34:19,458 --> 01:34:21,000 are the right to 2473 01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:21,750 vote or 2474 01:34:21,750 --> 01:34:22,791 conservative. So 2475 01:34:22,791 --> 01:34:25,333 the right part of 2476 01:34:25,333 --> 01:34:26,791 the politics in 2477 01:34:26,791 --> 01:34:27,541 the US, right? 2478 01:34:28,458 --> 01:34:29,500 Generally, yes. I 2479 01:34:29,500 --> 01:34:29,750 mean, the 2480 01:34:29,750 --> 01:34:30,708 Democrats do it a 2481 01:34:30,708 --> 01:34:31,333 little bit too. 2482 01:34:31,583 --> 01:34:32,000 Like, for 2483 01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:32,375 example, 2484 01:34:32,375 --> 01:34:32,875 when we talk 2485 01:34:32,875 --> 01:34:33,625 about partisan 2486 01:34:33,625 --> 01:34:34,416 gerrymandering, 2487 01:34:34,750 --> 01:34:35,375 the practice of 2488 01:34:35,375 --> 01:34:36,250 drawing lines 2489 01:34:36,250 --> 01:34:36,916 when we create a 2490 01:34:36,916 --> 01:34:37,583 district map, 2491 01:34:38,291 --> 01:34:38,750 the Republicans 2492 01:34:38,750 --> 01:34:39,166 where they 2493 01:34:39,166 --> 01:34:40,208 control draw 2494 01:34:40,208 --> 01:34:40,791 lines to help 2495 01:34:40,791 --> 01:34:41,375 themselves stay 2496 01:34:41,375 --> 01:34:42,083 in power, the 2497 01:34:42,083 --> 01:34:42,666 Democrats where 2498 01:34:42,666 --> 01:34:43,458 they control draw 2499 01:34:43,458 --> 01:34:44,000 lines to help 2500 01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:44,958 them stay in 2501 01:34:44,958 --> 01:34:46,125 power. So the 2502 01:34:46,125 --> 01:34:46,791 Democrats aren't 2503 01:34:46,791 --> 01:34:47,750 absolved from 2504 01:34:48,625 --> 01:34:50,958 some efforts to 2505 01:34:50,958 --> 01:34:51,958 skew democracy. 2506 01:34:52,208 --> 01:34:52,958 But right now, 2507 01:34:53,208 --> 01:34:53,500 it's the 2508 01:34:53,500 --> 01:34:54,125 Republicans that 2509 01:34:54,125 --> 01:34:54,958 are doing it a 2510 01:34:54,958 --> 01:34:55,583 lot more. 2511 01:34:55,583 --> 01:34:55,875 Especially when 2512 01:34:55,875 --> 01:34:56,291 it comes to 2513 01:34:56,291 --> 01:34:57,250 voting rights in 2514 01:34:57,250 --> 01:34:58,416 terms of voter 2515 01:34:58,416 --> 01:34:59,250 eligibility, who 2516 01:34:59,250 --> 01:35:00,541 can vote. Again, 2517 01:35:00,541 --> 01:35:01,083 a lot of this has 2518 01:35:01,083 --> 01:35:01,875 to do with race 2519 01:35:01,875 --> 01:35:03,208 in America. And 2520 01:35:03,208 --> 01:35:03,750 you know, right 2521 01:35:03,750 --> 01:35:05,000 now, race and 2522 01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:05,750 party are very 2523 01:35:05,750 --> 01:35:06,708 closely aligned, 2524 01:35:06,708 --> 01:35:07,000 generally 2525 01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:07,375 speaking, 2526 01:35:07,375 --> 01:35:07,708 although there's 2527 01:35:07,708 --> 01:35:08,500 been some shifts 2528 01:35:08,500 --> 01:35:09,916 in that. But 2529 01:35:09,916 --> 01:35:10,541 traditionally 2530 01:35:10,875 --> 01:35:11,500 over the past 2531 01:35:11,500 --> 01:35:13,000 several election 2532 01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:14,416 cycles, black 2533 01:35:14,416 --> 01:35:15,041 individuals have 2534 01:35:15,041 --> 01:35:15,666 voted for 2535 01:35:15,666 --> 01:35:16,625 Democrats, there's 2536 01:35:16,625 --> 01:35:17,125 been some 2537 01:35:17,125 --> 01:35:17,875 differences with 2538 01:35:17,875 --> 01:35:18,333 respect to 2539 01:35:18,333 --> 01:35:18,958 Hispanic and 2540 01:35:18,958 --> 01:35:19,291 Latino 2541 01:35:19,291 --> 01:35:21,291 individuals. But 2542 01:35:21,291 --> 01:35:22,333 race and party in 2543 01:35:22,333 --> 01:35:23,416 many places like 2544 01:35:23,416 --> 01:35:25,166 in the South are 2545 01:35:25,166 --> 01:35:26,000 closely aligned. 2546 01:35:26,750 --> 01:35:27,833 And so you see 2547 01:35:27,833 --> 01:35:28,291 the Republican 2548 01:35:28,291 --> 01:35:29,958 Party trying to 2549 01:35:30,541 --> 01:35:31,125 make, you know, 2550 01:35:31,125 --> 01:35:31,708 contract the 2551 01:35:31,708 --> 01:35:32,708 electorate. You 2552 01:35:32,708 --> 01:35:33,500 were telling us 2553 01:35:33,500 --> 01:35:33,875 last time 2554 01:35:33,875 --> 01:35:34,708 about the 2555 01:35:34,791 --> 01:35:35,500 Star Coast 2556 01:35:35,500 --> 01:35:37,500 Tri-Con. That was 2557 01:35:37,500 --> 01:35:38,458 very funny, no? 2558 01:35:38,458 --> 01:35:39,000 Yeah, yeah. So 2559 01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:39,541 that's from my 2560 01:35:39,541 --> 01:35:40,166 first book, 2561 01:35:40,166 --> 01:35:41,125 the book for us 2562 01:35:41,125 --> 01:35:42,458 on a chapter on 2563 01:35:42,458 --> 01:35:42,708 voter 2564 01:35:42,708 --> 01:35:43,291 registration, 2565 01:35:43,291 --> 01:35:44,083 where I talk 2566 01:35:44,083 --> 01:35:44,875 about ways that 2567 01:35:44,875 --> 01:35:45,416 some places are 2568 01:35:45,458 --> 01:35:46,416 trying to expand 2569 01:35:46,416 --> 01:35:47,750 the ability to 2570 01:35:47,750 --> 01:35:48,583 register voters, 2571 01:35:48,583 --> 01:35:49,250 even in the face 2572 01:35:49,250 --> 01:35:50,708 of often the 2573 01:35:50,708 --> 01:35:51,583 conservative side 2574 01:35:51,583 --> 01:35:52,416 trying to make it 2575 01:35:52,416 --> 01:35:52,791 harder to 2576 01:35:52,791 --> 01:35:53,916 register. And the 2577 01:35:53,916 --> 01:35:54,416 taco trucks 2578 01:35:54,416 --> 01:35:55,291 example was from 2579 01:35:55,291 --> 01:35:55,666 Houston, 2580 01:35:56,333 --> 01:35:56,750 where in a 2581 01:35:56,750 --> 01:35:57,125 Hispanic 2582 01:35:57,125 --> 01:35:57,625 neighborhood, 2583 01:35:58,166 --> 01:35:58,625 taco trucks 2584 01:35:58,625 --> 01:35:59,458 became voter 2585 01:35:59,458 --> 01:35:59,875 registration 2586 01:35:59,875 --> 01:36:00,458 hubs. They 2587 01:36:00,458 --> 01:36:00,791 had voter 2588 01:36:00,791 --> 01:36:01,166 registration 2589 01:36:01,166 --> 01:36:02,583 papers. So when 2590 01:36:02,583 --> 01:36:03,541 someone bought a 2591 01:36:03,541 --> 01:36:04,083 taco, they were 2592 01:36:04,083 --> 01:36:04,833 also asked, are you 2593 01:36:04,833 --> 01:36:05,500 registered to vote? 2594 01:36:05,916 --> 01:36:06,625 And the best part 2595 01:36:06,625 --> 01:36:07,250 of the story, 2596 01:36:07,250 --> 01:36:07,833 though, I love 2597 01:36:07,833 --> 01:36:09,458 tacos, I had last 2598 01:36:09,458 --> 01:36:09,875 night, by the 2599 01:36:09,875 --> 01:36:10,291 way, I had an 2600 01:36:10,333 --> 01:36:11,208 Italian taco, 2601 01:36:11,208 --> 01:36:12,333 it's a Pia Deena, 2602 01:36:13,750 --> 01:36:15,083 which my daughter 2603 01:36:15,083 --> 01:36:15,875 actually did a 2604 01:36:15,875 --> 01:36:16,541 research project 2605 01:36:16,541 --> 01:36:17,291 on tacos around 2606 01:36:17,291 --> 01:36:18,291 the world. And 2607 01:36:18,291 --> 01:36:19,375 she learned that 2608 01:36:19,375 --> 01:36:20,333 the Italian 2609 01:36:20,333 --> 01:36:20,958 version is the 2610 01:36:20,958 --> 01:36:21,541 "piadina" and I 2611 01:36:21,541 --> 01:36:22,083 happened upon a 2612 01:36:22,083 --> 01:36:22,458 place last 2613 01:36:22,458 --> 01:36:22,958 night, so I got 2614 01:36:22,958 --> 01:36:25,333 to try. But there 2615 01:36:25,333 --> 01:36:26,916 was no form for 2616 01:36:26,916 --> 01:36:27,625 you to register 2617 01:36:27,625 --> 01:36:28,500 on the not not 2618 01:36:28,500 --> 01:36:30,583 what I got my 2619 01:36:30,583 --> 01:36:31,500 "piadina". But 2620 01:36:31,500 --> 01:36:32,250 one of the best 2621 01:36:32,250 --> 01:36:32,708 parts of that 2622 01:36:32,708 --> 01:36:34,041 story is that the 2623 01:36:34,041 --> 01:36:34,791 voter turnout in 2624 01:36:34,791 --> 01:36:34,958 those 2625 01:36:34,958 --> 01:36:35,125 neighborhoods 2626 01:36:35,375 --> 01:36:36,541 went up after the 2627 01:36:36,541 --> 01:36:37,083 taco trucks 2628 01:36:37,083 --> 01:36:37,875 became voter 2629 01:36:37,875 --> 01:36:38,375 registration 2630 01:36:38,375 --> 01:36:39,833 sites. And so I 2631 01:36:39,833 --> 01:36:40,791 think you see a 2632 01:36:40,791 --> 01:36:41,208 real world 2633 01:36:41,208 --> 01:36:42,250 example of ways 2634 01:36:42,250 --> 01:36:43,333 to improve voter 2635 01:36:43,333 --> 01:36:44,416 turnout, even in 2636 01:36:44,416 --> 01:36:45,541 the face of some 2637 01:36:45,541 --> 01:36:45,875 attempts 2638 01:36:45,875 --> 01:36:46,500 to push back 2639 01:36:46,708 --> 01:36:47,375 against voting 2640 01:36:47,375 --> 01:36:48,500 rights. Okay, 2641 01:36:48,791 --> 01:36:49,416 thank you in 2642 01:36:49,416 --> 01:36:50,000 general. That was 2643 01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:50,291 super 2644 01:36:50,291 --> 01:36:50,916 interesting. I'm 2645 01:36:50,916 --> 01:36:51,583 very happy I did 2646 01:36:51,583 --> 01:36:52,250 this episode with 2647 01:36:52,250 --> 01:36:53,791 you. And I say 2648 01:36:53,791 --> 01:36:54,625 ciao to everybody 2649 01:36:54,625 --> 01:36:55,333 and see you for 2650 01:36:55,333 --> 01:36:56,500 the next. Ciao. 2651 01:36:56,500 --> 01:36:57,000 Thank you again. 2652 01:36:57,000 --> 01:36:57,500 Thank you. This 2653 01:36:57,500 --> 01:36:58,291 podcast has just 2654 01:36:58,291 --> 01:36:59,500 started one month 2655 01:36:59,500 --> 01:37:00,333 ago, and I am 2656 01:37:00,333 --> 01:37:01,166 already so happy 2657 01:37:01,166 --> 01:37:01,583 for all your 2658 01:37:01,583 --> 01:37:02,000 positive 2659 01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:02,958 feedback. It 2660 01:37:02,958 --> 01:37:03,291 cannot be 2661 01:37:03,291 --> 01:37:03,708 completely 2662 01:37:03,708 --> 01:37:04,541 perfect. So I 2663 01:37:04,541 --> 01:37:05,000 have created 2664 01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:05,916 profiles on 2665 01:37:05,916 --> 01:37:06,500 Instagram, 2666 01:37:06,500 --> 01:37:07,125 Facebook, Twitter 2667 01:37:07,125 --> 01:37:08,125 and others where 2668 01:37:08,125 --> 01:37:08,583 you can give me 2669 01:37:08,583 --> 01:37:09,541 your ideas. Your 2670 01:37:09,541 --> 01:37:10,250 feedback is 2671 01:37:10,250 --> 01:37:10,875 incredibly 2672 01:37:10,875 --> 01:37:11,500 helpful, 2673 01:37:11,500 --> 01:37:12,125 because you have 2674 01:37:12,125 --> 01:37:12,583 a perspective 2675 01:37:12,583 --> 01:37:13,500 that really I 2676 01:37:13,500 --> 01:37:14,458 cannot have. So 2677 01:37:14,458 --> 01:37:15,083 please send me 2678 01:37:15,083 --> 01:37:15,500 messages, 2679 01:37:15,750 --> 01:37:16,250 and I'll take 2680 01:37:16,250 --> 01:37:16,583 them into 2681 01:37:16,583 --> 01:37:17,375 consideration for 2682 01:37:17,375 --> 01:37:17,875 the next episode. 2683 01:37:18,333 --> 01:37:18,958 So see you 2684 01:37:18,958 --> 01:37:19,375 on the social 2685 01:37:19,375 --> 01:37:20,250 networks until the 2686 01:37:20,250 --> 01:37:21,208 next episode, on the 2687 01:37:21,208 --> 01:37:22,000 first of June.